Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)

Both of those men have had admirable and positive public service careers in this House and that is what motivates them, as it motivates all of us in the Lower House, not to aggrandise but to serve the community and society in the best way possible.

There is an issue around how we use information, privileged or otherwise, that comes into our hands and how we deploy that. Mr. Justice Morris said that. It is an indication of how fair the judge was that he was not afraid to go where perhaps we are sometimes loathe to go, namely, to be self-critical of our own profession. It is a rare privilege to be able to say things in this setting and not be subject to legal or other pressures of being sued etc. because we are in a sense the grand inquest of the nation, which is one definition of parliament. It was felt by the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, that he should defend what Mr. Justice Morris had put in the report.

A number of other questions arose in the debate which I want to address. I was struck by the issue of culture raised by Senator Boyle. The culture of organisations is hugely important. I say that self-critically, even in relation to my party and the troubles and difficulties we have encountered as a party through public tribunals by known individuals who have come before them. What is crucial in terms of the development of our organisation in response to those particular revelations and tribunals is the change in culture both at leadership level and through the organisation. It has been a painful process for Fianna Fáil and for this House. I refer to the period we have come through of accountability or ethical cleansing as people sometimes derisively call it. It has been an important process. It needs to be fair and people need to be self-reflective about its impacts. It is important to ensure that the new regulation does not result in people's basic rights and entitlements to free speech and basic privileges, as Members have said, being in some way infringed by a new regulatory environment or parameters.

I would also like to deal with an issue raised by Senator Norris, which I will follow up with the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern. He mentioned the case of a prominent businessman who had been seeking meetings with the fraud squad, which he claims were constantly delayed or put on the long finger. I do not believe that is acceptable. If it is happening I will ask the Minister to address it fairly quickly because it is not appropriate and would only serve to undermine confidence in the force.

I was very struck by Senator Regan's honest leading of the survey attitudes in evidence about the Garda. I had not been aware of it. I am a Minister of State and am not engaged full-time in the business of the justice and security side of this Department that I am in from time to time. The 81% rating for satisfaction with the Garda is remarkable given the almost catastrophic and terrible nature of the revelations that arose from the Morris tribunal. The legislation that this House and the other House have passed to reform the force is testimony to our success as legislators and credit is due to the force for reforming itself.

The Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, did apologise on behalf of the people in the other House, contrary to what Senator Cummins said.