Liam Twomey (Fine Gael)

We should have a more open debate on this issue and some form of question and answer session in the House. This issue has been discussed in both Houses as well as privately among ourselves. Many Members of this House are not experts on financial issues and even those who are experts are not quite sure where this is going. Even since this scheme was announced a couple of weeks ago, the situation has changed quite radically. Members of this House, who are more expert in regard to economic issues, have interesting and valid opinions, so we should have a two-way debate rather than statements whereby Members cannot contribute again once they have made their contribution, even though they may have a lot more to add. Perhaps we should consider returning to this issue every six weeks rather than every six months.

Every Member of the House would agree it is very important we keep the banks working. If we wish to do that, we are very much forced into supporting this scheme, whether or not we are critical of it. Our hand is being forced to some degree. The Minister of State said the regulator may require an institution to limit exposure to any sector or individual in the interests of confidence in the banking system. The Minister for Finance and other Members of this House would not like to see any Irish banks go down but we have no idea of the level of bad debts in the banking system. Could we drag down good and solid banks, which are experiencing a bit of difficulty now, by taking a blanket approach and saving everybody? We have no idea how bad things are. This huge uncertainty and the lack of information are the reasons there is such a flight of capital from Irish bank stocks. If the Houses had an open debate, perhaps we could see whether we can save all the Irish banks, whether we can sort out the issue of liquidity and whether the issue of capitalisation needs to be considered seriously.

Until now the Minister has stated there is no problem with capitalisation. However, I believe every dog in the street knows there is a need to deal with the issue of capitalisation of the Irish banking system. If it becomes an issue after pretending it is not one, it will add to the uncertainly among the public. Members of the Houses are paying attention to what is happening but many members of the public are not and when they see that the scheme, which the Minister announced a couple of weeks ago and which was almost to the fore of what was happening internationally, is now almost lagging behind what is happening internationally and the Irish stock market almost crashed twice, they will become fearful. That will have a knock-on effect on the economy. There is scope to be a little more open-minded.

There is also a concern that people may feel there are shades of the beef tribunal in this. This scheme will bail out some very wealthy people. We must ensure we get the public on side in regard to this issue. The public has seen what happened with previous bail-outs where the taxpayer paid substantial amounts of money and the individuals who were bailed out became billionaires after their businesses were saved by the taxpayer. The taxpayer does not get the same benefit.

There is a sense that we are taking from the needy to give to the greedy and that the Government is somewhat compliant in what is happening. The Minister of State does not want to say too much but he knows the Government, the developers, the banks and being greedy have got us into this mess. He is also fully aware that the people who are supposed to get us out of this mess, namely, that same Government, the Financial Regulator and the governor of the Central Bank, were asleep on the job when this crisis was unfolding over recent months.

There is a need for better dialogue with Government and for an open debate in both Houses in order that we can discuss this very serious issue like grown-ups. We should address the issue of capitalisation. Perhaps we could set up a fund called "the Irish Government sovereign fund" if we need to capitalise the banks and that when this money is paid back by the banks, it could be given back to the people, whether by way of lower taxes or otherwise, to show appreciation of the role they played in getting us through this crisis.

Some Members on this side of the House are being very much being forced into supporting the scheme.