Michael McCarthy (Labour)

I welcome the Minister, Deputy Mary Hanafin, to the House. I congratulate her on her appointment and wish her well in her role. Now, more than ever, we are very aware of the economic climate and the difficulties faced by people, not least by Ministers, who must try this week to agree on the budget for next year. The Department of Social and Family Affairs, more than any Department, reaches out to an audience that is by and large more vulnerable and more in need of State support than any other. The task ahead is quite difficult and my party will make proposals that it believes are beneficial and worthwhile.

No one will disagree with the fact that MABS provides a very important service. There was a different political era and economic climate in 1992 when the economy was just turning the corner and taking off. Given the downturn in the economy in 2008, it is ironic that people are returning to services such as MABS for guidance and advice. It is very important that MABS be advice-based and emphasise budgetary measures.

MABS deals with children and adults in a number of different areas. With regard to adults, it is not appropriate simply to pay off debts. There are obviously cases of extreme hardship where the only possible action entails doing so but, in general, the mission statement and objective of the organisation is quite good. To write a cheque to someone to pay a bill is completely missing the point. What people require is training in financial management and household economics. Budget-based advice is essential because it gets one out of one's current position and also provides one with the necessary skills to deal with financial problems when they present themselves. I am reminded of the old adage that if one gives a man a fish, one will feed him for a day but that if one teaches him how to fish, he will be fed for life. This very much reflects the ethos of MABS.

It is very important that a person can go to a MABS office in a certain town or village at any given time and receive one-to-one service from a member of staff. It must be shattering for someone not to have money in his pocket and be faced with bills. Very few families have not experienced this, especially the bigger ones. Down through the generations, such families had to make do on very small budgets, particularly the female members of the households. These women were accountants, bookkeepers, purchasers, mothers, cooks, chefs and cleaners. Their role was multifaceted. Down through the years, there was very little support for such household leaders. I thank God we now have the wherewithal to put in place structures to ensure families will not fall into the poverty trap and that, if they do, the State will be able to provide them with the skills, confidence and dignity to get out of it.

It must be quite daunting for a person to receive two or three additional bills in any given week and realise there is no money to pay them. It is great that an adviser can go to that person's door, listen and advise on what needs to be done to get out of financial difficulty. We must not forget the local impetus in terms of running the service and the local connection which means somebody does not have to go to a larger urban centre. In many ways, this is reflective of a decentralisation in that the service is at somebody's doorstep, which is important. It does not involve great use of public transport or great difficulty to get to one of these centres. The most difficult thing for people is deciding they need to seek help and then going about seeking it.

We need to be mindful of the proliferation of money lenders and loan sharks in this country, particularly during the 1980s when it was not easy for any Government to take charge because money was so scarce. It is unthinkable that some were involved in this type of activity, which still goes on, although thankfully not to the same degree. Bullies who would do a disservice to Mafia dons went into working class estates to families who had no money, lent them money at extortionate interest rates and then bullied them into paying that money back. Who can ever forget the "Today Tonight" programme, the precursor of "Prime Time", which focused on the scum who operated in this country throughout the 1980s? They went to people's houses to meet the female head of the household on her way to the post office to collect children's allowance. They then waited for her to come out of the post office before taking the cash from her. It was unspeakably evil to perpetrate that kind of bullying and exploitation on those who were financially less well off and to take complete advantage of them.

If anything, MABS highlights the other side of that coin in providing a decent and dignified State service that ensures the loan sharks do not have a clientele to bully and intimidate. That MABS now has more than 12,000 clients is remarkable, as is the statistic that it has dealt with more than 9,000 calls since October 2007, particularly given the number of people who, in the absence of that service, would unfortunately fall into the clutches of money lenders and loan sharks.

To return to the point on the household budget, it is very important to give people not just a skillset but the structure they need to run a household based on a budget. I know there are those who literally cannot handle money, and to know this is necessary to deal with the problem. It is most important to put in place a scheme whereby a person knows he or she has X amount and must pay A, B and C from that. Giving that kind of advice is critical.

I was very enthused by the fact MABS and the Financial Regulator, the man of the moment, have developed an educational programme for transition year students. To go into the schools to educate young people about this issue is the key and there is no better Minister to deal with this area, given Deputy Hanafin's experience as a teacher and Minister for Education and Science. This is a non-curriculum subject, if we could call it that — it is a bit like CSPE — which is taught one hour a week to junior cycle, but it is very important. Students could get more out of this than some of the academic subjects taught at that stage in second level schools.

It is like smoking at the garden shed. We all did it, though thankfully I kicked the habit, and much credit in that area goes to the Minister, Deputy Micheál Martin, who introduced the smoking ban. My point concerns the importance of teaching people at an early age. While it is common sense to most of us that doing this kind of thing is wrong, getting in early is key to solving the problem. We need early intervention not only to ensure the situation does not begin, but that if it does, it is not allowed to continue.

I wish to raise another issue in this context. Any time one opens a newspaper these days, several pieces of promotional literature fall out — at one time, they would have been put in the fire, but now they are put in the recycling bin. Many of these give easy access to credit cards. People jot down their details on an application form and, lo and behold, a week later a credit card and a PIN arrives in the post. This is lethal. It is dangerous in the sense it adds extortionately to the amount of credit available so that we all live in credit card debt. To use credit cards for essential items such as fuel or groceries, or in restaurants or filling stations is fair enough — that is rudimentary use of a credit card. However, there are those who are being exploited. They are targeted by credit card companies and are given very easy access to cash which is very expensive to borrow. This is worth considering in the context of the great service which MABS provides.

Who would blame people who do not have money when they read these advertisements? Who would look a gift horse in the mouth? The newspaper arrives with such soft, easy access to cash which could take a person out of a hole. It is difficult to blame somebody for following that particular course of action.

I appeal to the Government and the Minister, Deputy Hanafin, not to merge the Combat Poverty Agency. They should consider the service it provides and its customer base. There are people who depend on that excellent service, of which the Minister is aware. It is critical the service is not diluted. Given the current economic climate, would it not be good to examine the back to education allowance, for example, given that all of these issues are inevitably interlinked? That scheme needs to be reconfigured to reflect the current economic climate.

My final point takes in two areas of the Minister's vast expertise, education and social welfare. I put forward a proposal on the Order of Business this morning and during the education debate yesterday. A great idea has been put to the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy O'Keeffe, and to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Martin. I would be surprised if it has not been put to the Minister, Deputy Hanafin. It relates to Gaelscoil Chloch na gCoillte in County Cork. It would be good if the State could guarantee mortgages for schools in such situations. The rent of this school costs €300,000 a year. If the mortgage was guaranteed, surely there would be a saving in rent. There are 28 prefabs on the site, of which the Minister is aware. This links into the work of the Department of Social and Family Affairs because to do this would reboot the economy in that local area, take people off social welfare and put them back into gainful employment where they are contributing to Revenue as taxpayers. It would be worthwhile to consider this.

The late Minister, Mr. Seamus Brennan, was in this House on many occasions to deal with social affairs. I found him to be a thorough gentleman to deal with, and somebody who cared about his ministry. He was very aware of the people he wished to represent. On one occasion, I raised a general issue with the late Minister in regard to a constituent who could not get a disability payment and I did so without divulging personal details. When I left the Chamber, Mr. Brennan followed me to get the details, gave them to his officials and the matter was followed up. It was a beautiful gesture. May he rest in peace.