Shane Ross (Independent)

I would like to share my time with Senator Buttimer. I was somewhat disappointed with what the Minister had to say, but I welcome the Minister of State to the House. If one reads between the lines of what the Minister had to say, it looks as if there will be a freeze on educational spending next week. The speech he made was peppered with code words like "as resources permit", "in the changed circumstances" and "consistent with overall prudent management of the Irish economy". This means we will not get any good news for schools next week. I suppose we cannot expect it, but we should make a special plea for primary schools.

I do not claim to be an expert on education or on how it operates, but I have a certain knowledge of waste in the public service. It is fair to say that, in the educational world, there is far less waste than in other Departments. The value for money that comes from the Department of Education and Science is far greater than others, and not just in the immediate sense. The Minister talks in a lame way about administrative efficiencies; there is no problem with that as one could talk about them forever. It is a bit of a cliche to say this, but the money put into education today pays off forever. It is difficult to accept that there can be any justification for cuts of any sort next week.

I met a group of primary teachers here not long ago. One of the most distressing things was that their morale has been almost destroyed. These people were very dedicated. They were not overpaid but they were not in the slightest bit worried about it, which was striking. I asked them what was worrying them. Not one of them mentioned pay, which is a big change from ten years ago. This indicated to me that they were demoralised because of the conditions in which they had to work. The Minister knows the stories of people working in overcrowded classrooms, in terrapin huts and with no computers. Incidentally, I cannot believe that the Minister is congratulating himself on having one computer for every nine pupils. That means there are eight people waiting all the time.