Joe O'Toole (Independent)

In that regard, he would know him far better than we did. He certainly was a man of extraordinary intelligence, cultured and interested in music in particular. He knew the rules backwards. If he were here today, he would have some interest in the point I raise next, which relates to the second item on the Order Paper.

Since that month 21 years ago, in all my time in here, I have no recollection — I stand to be corrected on this — of the House ever establishing a sub-committee of another committee. It never happened before. The Dáil did it last Thursday but I believe it went beyond its jurisdiction in doing that. It was ultra vires its own Standing Orders.

I will outline why that is the case. We set up a Joint Committee on European Affairs. I have no objection to the committee. I refer to the procedure establishing it. Last October we set up a select committee of Members of this House who would join the other select committee to form the Joint Committee on European Affairs. We empowered the select committee comprising Senator Donohoe, Senator Quinn, Senator Prendergast, and some Members from the other side of the House to establish sub-committees under the terms of Standing Orders 70(1) to 70(9), inclusive. We also established a joint committee. We gave the joint committee the powers as defined in Standing Orders 70(1) to 70(9), inclusive. Standing Order 70(3) refers to the "power to appoint sub-committees", etc. We have given away the power to establish sub-committees of the Joint Committee on European Affairs by a decision of the House. It is a regulated decision and it is the normal way of doing business. We are overriding that. At this point we do not have the power to establish a sub-committee. We could establish a special committee or other kinds of committees but we do not have the authority to establish a sub-committee of either the select committee, which we appointed last year, or the joint committee that was formed by the two select committees. I do not raise the matter to create a difficulty for the Leader but this is ultra vires. I have never seen it happen before.