Rónán Mullen (Independent)

Better later than never. I support this Bill. It is an irony that the situation we are facing has been brought about by a massive breach of trust by many people in the financial world. We now find ourselves trusting the Minister to use the powers he will have under this Bill to help us into a situation where Irish financial institutions will enjoy full trust at home and internationally.

I was reminded of Donald Rumsfeld's infamous phrase about known unknowns. The truth is we do not know the precise level of exposure or risk we are taking in taking the step necessary to provide this guarantee to the banks. It is fair to speculate that whatever the degree of risk and exposure we face by acting in this way, the risk and exposure we would face by not acting would be a multiple of it.

We have guaranteed the funds and deposits in our banks, and the repayment of monies on loan to our banks. A jaded cynic commented to me earlier that now our bank officials are effectively becoming civil servants, would they have to take the Irish oral exam from now on?

We need to reflect on the valuable commodity of time. It is said that time heals all wounds. It is time that will give the breathing space needed to allow business activity and money to flow as blood flows through a living organism. We are in the business of gaining time to enable things to return to normality.

Some have commented on the extent of our exposure as a result of this move. The truth is that even when financial systems are working perfectly, there would be a huge degree of exposure if everybody was to call back the money that belonged to them. The whole system is based on confidence so credit can be given, and given again and again, and money can flow through the system. This Bill is an honourable way to build confidence. There will be a time to reflect on the many dishonourable ways in which confidence was sought to be built in recent times in the area of high finance. I would like the Minister to explain precisely how the charges will be levied on the banks for the guarantee being given, whether it will be, as Deputy Eamon Gilmore stated, a case of paying the premium only when the claim is made, or whether there will be a charge for enjoying the guarantee whether they ever have recourse to it or not.

There must also come a time when we reflect. I was taken by Senator Paschal Donohoe's speech earlier on how trust has been breeched and how people in financial services undermined trust by separating risk management from ethical decision making. Trust was undermined by not saying stop when people moved from risk taking to recklessness. Trust was undermined when people were incentivised to not be transparent and honest, and to produce results by whatever means on a quarterly basis. It was undermined whenever, as leaders, politicians, analysts, journalists or investors, people made dishonest statements about the affairs of their company or industry. Last December the CEO of AIG, Martin Sullivan said the probability of losses on AIG's portfolio of credit swaps was close to zero, and any write-downs would be manageable. Dick Fuld, CEO of Lehman Brothers, said at their AGM last April that the worst of the impact on the financial services industry was "behind us". Those are the kinds of statements that undermined trust. Joseph Stiglitz, the 2001 recipient of the Nobel Prize for Economics wrote recently, speaking in an international context, that some of our best and brightest were devoting their talents to getting around standards and regulations designed to ensure the efficiency of the economy and the safety of the banking system.

It is four o'clock in the morning, and I will share a quote from Confucius. One might say we are confused enough already. Confucius said that to put the world in order we must first put the nation in order, and to put the nation in order we must first the family in order. To put the family in order, we must first cultivate our personal life, and set our hearts right. There is a message in there somewhere for the bankers.