David Norris (Independent)

I thank Senator Quinn for sharing his time with me and, following the changing of the guard, I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Micheál Kitt. Numerous Ministers of State are coming and going.

Although the Minister of State's speech summed up the problem well, this constitutes a weak method of addressing it and does not go half far enough. He indicated problems with which all Members are familiar. There is a problem regarding excessive drinking in Ireland that leads to all kinds of social disorder. The reason is known, namely, availability and price. The Government has done nothing for years on price. It now has begun to act at the margins of availability and this limited initiative is to be welcomed.

I refer to licensing and the reference to the District Court. I got into great trouble because I stated on television that I did not know what kind of lunatics were handing out licences. I stated they seemed to be handing them out like Smarties, were merely rubber-stamping the applications and that I had seen this in court. While this was the case, it was 15 years ago and at the time I made the remarks only one person was engaged in this process. Although I did not know of his existence and had not heard of his name, he sued. While that was the Judiciary's response, its members should have considered the situation. I repeat the phrase, "rubber stamp". While 40 gardaí may be involved in respect of applications from approximately 100 people, the gardaí usually do not even give evidence.

The Minister of State should recommend what should happen for inclusion in this Bill or a subsequent one. The Garda should be present and should be represented by gardaí with knowledge. If a single garda is to be responsible for a series of areas, that officer must be supplied with the information. Moreover, a certificate should be issued each year stating that a particular pub has not transgressed. It was a rubber stamp previously and I stand over that. Moreover, it still is. I recall a case in which the local community, the Garda and the civic authorities objected to a licence for a premises that was sending people who were absolutely stocious spewing out on to the streets of inner city Dublin. Although all three elements objected, the licence was granted. One is entitled to know the reason. Perhaps the judge was constrained or perhaps the gardaí had not been obliged to give evidence. However, even when they did, it was not taken into account and this is worrying.

I am pleased the Bill includes provisions to take drink from people. Such provisions existed years ago, when I was a child. They may have been under the Vagrancy Acts or similar measures that may have been abolished. However, there is a place in Marlborough Street, close to where I live in the north inner city, that looks after drunks and druggies. At a certain hour, they are moved on and a herd of them migrate. They collect extra supplies from Booze 2 Go and sit on the steps in North Great George's Street. The 18th century houses there have wide steps that serve as a nice platform for them. They urinate, excrete, have sex and do everything else on the steps and no one does a thing about it. Why? This must be addressed.

The problem also arises from the fact that the abolition of the groceries order was a terrible mistake that encouraged below-cost selling by supermarkets, which promoted themselves using alcohol sales. Every little huxter's shop in Dublin stocks beer, wine and spirits up to its rafters. While the issue is addressed to some extent in this Bill, this is not due to idealism but to the strength of the drinks lobby and is to even the playing field for publicans.

I have been briefed by people from the nightclub industry and am partially, if not 100%, sympathetic. I do not care whether people drink or whether drink is available around the clock. It is not a question of when people drink, but of their behaviour. As long as nightclubs are managed well, I do not care a damn. It has been put to me that the reduced opening times on Sundays will put a large number of people out of work and the Minister should reconsider this proposal. Moreover, it is regulating the behaviour of the proprietors. I happen to know the people who briefed me on this issue. They are well-established and come from good background.

I also note that a section deals with containers. This legislation was rushed and the National Youth Council was not involved, although it should have been. The advice given by various professional groups was either lumped in or ignored. However, for example, a suggestion had been made that, arising from the other aspects of nuisance, that is, the distribution of containers, bottles, empties and so on around the place, there should be a point of sale indicator on them. In other words, there should be some form of labelling so that one could identify where such items were bought. This is an important point and I ask the reason it was not included in the Bill.

I probably will table two amendments, although it possibly is futile. The first will require certificates from the Garda because there is no point in having 40 gardaí in court if, as I witnessed, they are never asked a question about the reputation of a premises. The second will pertain to the business of labelling. I am glad a tiny move has been made in this regard. Moreover, I read with interest the comments of the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, who poured scorn and contempt on the futile little advertisement notices that ask people to be careful while consuming an alcoholic product. What they mean is that while people should drink as much as they possibly can and get absolutely twisted, such notices constitute the producer's fig leaf. MEAS is the name of the organisation and I have no meas or respect for it as a serious problem exists. Half of the murders and manslaughters in this jurisdiction have an alcohol ingredient, as do one third of the road traffic deaths. That describes the scale of present behaviour. This Bill is doing what used to be called a baby step in the game relievio. It is neither a scissors step nor a giant step but is a baby step. While it is at least in the right direction, this legislation is rushed and does not go halfway far enough. Moreover, there are areas, such as those raised by my friends representing nightclubs, that should be reconsidered. I ask the Government to consider the two areas in which I suggested amendments might be made.