Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)

I thank all those who contributed to the debate. Thinking back on my own time as a Member, I miss the pronounced views on these subjects one often hears from the Independent benches.

The only politicised contribution was made by Senator Twomey. We have had excellent political leadership over the past decade, especially on the economy. The past 20 years have been miraculous and, inevitably, a positive cycle will not continue forever but it has put us on an entirely new plane. Benchmarking was vastly superior to the special pay claims systems that existed previously. From time to time, agencies are created and then rationalised. Senator MacSharry's father rationalised agencies 20 years ago. Many large towns live in hope and their chances are better if they have IDA sites. Inevitably, they will not all be filled and that is not necessarily a criticism. They should not be provided for excessively but they are necessary.

It was stated there were no reforms of the health service. What was the establishment of the Health Service Executive? One might have mixed views on the outcome and Senator MacSharry made an important remark about management for performance rather than performance reporting. I would be concerned if the aim of the public service was merely to satisfy certain bureaucratic criteria rather than service improvements on the ground.

I am interested in Senator Kelly's experience in Fáilte Ireland. Many Members of the Houses, including myself, have spent time in the public service. I refer to the comment that semi-State bodies are below the Civil Service. When I was dealing with energy issues, I was never under the impression that the ESB was below the Department of Energy and I doubt Senator O'Malley's father was either.

I agree with Senator Boyle that the social partnership system has been highly effective and I also agree about the need for more mobility and interoperability. Senator Donohoe correctly stated the OECD report presented the longer view and, like many good OECD reports over the past 40 years, it will be referred to for a long time to come. I also concur with him that many of our benchmarks will be outside the country.

I join in Senator Hanafin's tribute to the public service and I agree with his reference to France and giving people time to stream. I also endorse his praise of the OECD. I attended an OECD ministerial meeting a few weeks ago but, as a public servant in the 1970s, I attended such meetings and the organisation is an enormous resource for western democratic governments. While it does not take decisions, it provides peer reviews and discusses issues and common approaches.

I agree with Senator Mary White's comments about the calibre of people in the public as well as the private sector. She stated people should be encouraged to take risks and make mistakes and I concur up to a point. However, Irish Shipping was sunk by two executives who took speculative risks and put the company in an impossible position.

Senator Bradford rightly praised the social partnership system and we all hope the current talks will come to fruition. It is important that, in the current challenging climate, that be the case. In an address to IBEC on 25 June the Taoiseach stated:

A new deal on pay and related issues would provide much needed stability and reassurance at this time. It would convey a strong sense of confidence domestically and internationally by showing that we are prepared to work together to safeguard the economy and our competitiveness as well as the interests of workers and the more vulnerable in society.

I also agree with his criticism, which has been made by many heads of government across Europe, that it is all very well for organisations to call for pay restraint and moderation but, as he stated, "It is clear that the headline rate of pay increases for top level executives in the private sector has not been aligned with this general message and this is a source of concern."

At its heart, public service modernisation is about delivering excellent public services and improving the service provided to citizens at all levels in the most efficient and cost effective way. It requires good structures and business processes and it also requires that the quality of service delivery to the citizen is central to the work of public servants at all levels. We have come a long way in delivering on this agenda and this is recognised by the OECD but we also recognise there is much more to do. Public service is predominantly a people business run by people for people and I want to be clear about the Government's commitment to our public services. We want a public service fit for purpose of which the public and our public servants can be proud.

According to the OECD, the public service and, in particular, the Civil Service are doing more with less relative to the size of the overall economy and workforce and this has been a factor in Ireland's international competitiveness. I once served in the Department of Foreign Affairs and relatively small embassies do for this country what larger embassies do for bigger countries. The OECD recommends not only improved governance but also performance dialogue for increased sharing of information and expertise and shared agreement on performance targets to hold each party accountable for the realisation of such targets. That must be a real and not an artificial process, otherwise pursuit of targets becomes an end in itself. One can think of other countries where it has been alleged figures have been massaged to meet targets and we do not want to get into that.

The OECD recognises that instead of focusing on outputs and processes, more information must be gathered on outcomes and what has actually been achieved, as this can better assist in measuring how the public service is meeting overarching targets and objectives. The terms of reference for the task force refer to an appropriate framework for reviewing the establishment, operation and governance of State agencies. As already indicated, this area will be important to the next phase of public service modernisation.

With regard to decentralisation, which is of interest to many Members of both Houses, almost 2,200 posts have been relocated to date. Decentralising organisations have now established a presence in 34 locations around the country and over 11,000 civil and public servants have applied on the central applications form to decentralise. I receive representations and correspondence from individuals on this almost every day. I dare say many other public representatives receive similar communications.

It is clear that public service reform has increased importance, particularly in the current economic climate. We will be looking to the public service, in conjunction with political and Government responsibility and the co-operation of all other sectors of society, to help us to steer through the current difficult phase in the hope that we can hold onto and consolidate many of the gains that have been made and retreat as little as possible.

This is a valuable report that will be carefully studied, as is the case with all such reports. It is not a bible so not every recommendation is necessarily perfectly adapted to our culture and circumstances, but it is certainly a resource from which ideas and inspiration can be drawn so we can improve our performance. I will finish as I started by expressing my high regard for the public service and the contribution it makes, and will continue to make, to Irish society.

With regard to a point made by Senator O'Malley, I have looked at the figures for the public sector. The figures for the Civil Service are different. The growth in the public sector in the past five years has been 7%. It is not a large expansion of the public service. Certain sectors have grown but others have contracted in compensation for that. We have a reasonably lean public service but we must get maximum value for money from it.

I thank the Senators for contributing to this useful debate.