Shane Ross (Independent)

I know the ushers give freely of their time and it could not have been done without them.

I am not sure whether I am in total agreement on the need for a debate on the economy. We have had many debates on the economy in this House and if we were very honest about it, I am not sure whether anyone listens to them.

Talks are taking place in Government Buildings to which Senator Butler referred. The reality is that the social partners, particularly the trade unions, IBEC and Father Seán Healy, who is representing somebody up there, are listened to far more than are we in this House. These are not just pay talks because they involve issues that confront the entire economy. If we really think the social partners read the Seanad debate every time an issue emerges or when they come to a decision or discuss the subject, we are fooling ourselves. If we are going to discuss the economy, we should be listened to and not just talk to a Minister of State who does not necessarily have much input into what happens in Government Buildings. The issue is whether the social partners have too much power and whether we have very little or no power.

The second issue I raise is the one raised by Senator Regan. We are all a bit long-winded and are rather indulged by the Chair. I have learned to admire and listen to at length what Senator Regan has to say on the Order of Business. To accuse the Leader of being long-winded in his reply is somewhat unfair. His replies are full, frank and combative but Senator Regan would be the first person to accuse him of not giving a full reply if he did not answer the Senator's questions. There may be come criticisms that can be made of him but that one is extraordinarily unfair. He tries, not always successfully, to reply to our questions reasonably adequately. He does so in a full way but Senator Regan's criticism is totally unfair because if the Leader replied in one minute, refused all requests and said goodbye, Senator Regan would be the first to criticise him. His replies are excellent and we should applaud him.