Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I discussed this matter with him on many occasions. The fact that he did not get his opportunity in the Abbey during those years was something that hurt him so often and for so long. As a number of speakers have suggested, the Abbey must be the place for new writing. We should support, acknowledge and appreciate what it has to do. While the Abbey Theatre is not there to make money, its finances must be well handled. It must mind the pennies and get value for money; there can be no pulling back from that. If we accept the suggestion of taking a certain amount of new writing talent in the course of a year, we must be able to pay the price for that because not all those plays will be successful. We must deal with the fact that some of them may play to empty houses.

It should be recognised that the Abbey does commission new material from young playwrights, such as Marina Carr, Colm Tóbín and, more recently, Conor McPherson. Such material has been encouraged by the Abbey, while other commercial theatres could not take the risk involved.

The Abbey is there to inspire us in whatever way through its engagement with theatre-goers. It is there to comment on society and to entertain us also. The Abbey's current Chekhov play, "Three Sisters", is a commentary on society today. We need to see that it is there to develop for society. It is not commercial. It is a showcase for new Irish talent. It is there to nurture new writing and creativity, to give space to new playwrights, and to expose the rest of us to the best that is happening in Irish creative theatre. In that sense, it also needs to go even beyond new writing to the area of experiment.

I recall a time not that many years ago when there were two great pieces on in the Abbey and in the Peacock, one a well-known Leitrim writer's only play and the other by a well-known Dublin writer about the heroin society. Both plays were destroyed by the critics. I thought they gave a complete and supportive view of Irish society at the time. John McGahern was so hurt by it he never wrote another play. It was panned and written-off by the Sunday Independent of all newspapers. It was described as not being pure theatre and being melodramatic. Melodramatic was exactly the reason given for the non-acceptance of John B. Keane's plays all his life. I remember saying to John McGahern that they said the same to John B. Keane. At least the Abbey gave John McGahern the opportunity to write a play, which I believe will find its place again. It also gave Dermot Bolger the opportunity to produce a piece of theatre which showed the low-life of Dublin drug society around Finglas, as it was at the time, and other things. This was a commentary on Irish life.

The last play to finish in the Peacock in recent times was a commentary on public life and corruption in public life. It does not matter when it was written. Shakespeare can be produced today and be a comment on today's life if it is produced in a particular way.

All in all, I welcome the points made by the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh. This is an important debate. I wish him well in his Ministry and also in developing the Abbey as quickly and as effectively as possible.