Feargal Quinn (Independent)

Perhaps they were.

The idea of providing for the transfer of ownership of the electricity assets from the ESB to EirGrid is one we must accept on the basis that there will be competition, thus lowering the price, as Senator O'Malley suggested. I am a little confused in this regard. I read about the Competition Authority welcoming the move because real competition was necessary but it seems real competition sometimes becomes almost more important than the price. This has happened in the electricity market recently in that the price sometimes had to increase in order to encourage competition. This seems to be operating back to front. Competition is essential and should lower prices but, in order to attract other operators, we sometimes allow prices to increase rather than decrease. I question the increasing of prices to create competition, of which I am fully in favour and which I advocate. The process should be the other way around.

On Wednesday, 18 June, the European Parliament voted in Strasbourg in favour of legislation to force big power utilities to sell off their distribution networks. The MEPs believe such a move would boost competition in the European Union's energy markets in that taking control away from powerful groups would encourage new entrants. The vote does not mean such a law will be passed but industry sources said some days ago that it could influence the EU Council of Ministers, which has the final say on the issue, to favour introducing such a law. Some member states, particularly France and Germany, which are home to big power companies such as E.ON and EDF, are opposed to the move. If a law were introduced in the Union to make markets much more liberalised, would it not leave utilities in Ireland vulnerable to takeovers by energy companies such as the giant Russian company Gazprom?

I welcome the construction of an interconnector between Wexford and Wales. I was impressed by the target completion date, which I read was originally 2010. The Minister referred to a completion date before the end of 2012. Is this a realistic target? When will it be decided whether the Government plans to permit EirGrid to borrow all the money required? Will it rely on taxpayers' money to partially fund the project as part of an arrangement involving a private operator building an east-west interconnector that will provide an alternative energy source? Will the Government be able to afford the project and how does the State intend to assist in the funding of the interconnector? This will clearly have an impact on EirGrid's borrowing requirements.

Senator Bradford urged that we include nuclear energy as part of the future debate. While it is not under discussion at present, I have a daughter who lives in France and I was highly impressed when I saw her electricity bill because it states the source of the energy and how much of it came from nuclear power. A substantial proportion does so in France, as approximately 70% of its electricity comes from nuclear power. While I do not argue in favour of nuclear power, the debate should be opened. I recently heard the Englishman, Professor Robert Pickard, speaking in favour of the nuclear power although the figures he provided were horrific. As far as can be ascertained, even if one buries nuclear waste in deep caverns, it will last for 300,000 years. Clearly, a major problem exists, not about nuclear power as such, but how one manages to get rid of the waste afterwards.

Like Senator O'Malley, I have been impressed to hear discussions on micro-generators and whether enough is being done in this regard. I heard a man speaking on radio last week about using the water and rivers in County Donegal to produce power. He had three or four sources of electricity coming from micro-generators attached to small rivers and streams in his own locality.

I refer to two other points that were raised. The first pertains to watching our energy costs and the move to more efficient lamp bulbs. As an aside, it is interesting to note that although steps in this regard have not yet been taken in this House, perhaps they will be. However, the trade defence instruments used by the EU have delayed the importation of efficient lamp bulbs from China and elsewhere. This is to protect the lamp bulb industry, probably in Germany or wherever it is located. While I believe we must get that balance right, not enough has been done in the aforementioned area of energy conservation. If that is the case, the trade defence instruments that are in place to protect European industries clearly are not acting in the best interests of such conservation.

As for the other issue I will touch on, I appeared on the "Tubridy Tonight" television show almost two years ago and was asked whether, were I to go into business now, I would go into the same business as I did 40 or 50 years ago. I replied I would not and that were I to do so now, areas I would consider would include energy conservation and the creation of new sources of energy. Having mentioned this, I was amazed by the volume of information that reached me via the post and otherwise. It came from people who were investing heavily, and in a highly entrepreneurial fashion, in wave, tidal, solar, wind and a number of other technologies I had not even thought of previously. Clearly, some will achieve a breakthrough and will enable us to benefit therefrom. I am confident that Ireland should continue to encourage and to invest. Moreover, when investing in education and in science and technology in particular, we must ensure we do so in many different ways.

I was impressed by a company from University College Cork that has developed a lamp bulb with so many benefits that the company has managed to sell it worldwide in different ways. While such enterprises are small, they are based on science and technology and Ireland must continue to encourage that. Our options should include ensuring that we encourage people to take up science and technology. While there has been a drift away from such subjects in schools, it may be possible to so do as I have heard recently that the provision of more points for maths and other subjects might encourage students to choose such options for their leaving certificates.

I am satisfied by the Bill's introduction and believe it constitutes the correct way to proceed. Members should encourage the Minister and the steps being taken in this regard. However, the cart must not be put before the horse, as the objective is to benefit Ireland, its citizens and those who will invest in Ireland in future. It is to ensure the presence of a reliable and price-conscious network with automatic competition that will facilitate price reductions and will encourage industry to come to Ireland and use its electricity. I thank the Minister for his comments and his encouragement.