David Norris (Independent)

There seemed to be a little movement there, although not much. I will withdraw my amendment, but I still think it is appalling that somebody should be sent to jail for non-payment of a television licence or of a consequent fine. We, luckily, are far removed from the "hot struggles of the poor". I have no sympathy with some middle class person with plenty of money who decides to spend it all on himself or herself. That is where one can attach the earnings. That is why I tabled that amendment. It costs a lot to send somebody to jail, much more than the cost of the licence, so it is an absurdity. The scale of the fines in the Bill specifies a fine not exceeding €1,000 in the case of a first offence. That is enough to frighten the life out of any person who is unable to pay the licence fee in the first place. The fine for a second offence is not to exceed €2,000. We are happy to specify the fines and the consequence.

I am glad the Minister said he felt that 99.999% of the people of this country would agree with this amendment. Is the Minister among the 0.001%? Is he with the rest of us in his heart? I ask him, like the former leader of his party and Taoiseach, Mr. Éamon de Valera, to look into his heart and find therein the capacity to ensure nobody goes to jail. One would need the irony of Jonathan Swift to deal with this. It has happened a couple of times in the past couple of years. Yanking a six year old child from the arms of his or her mother punishes the child as well, and that is not fair. I cited the experience of meeting the senior magistrate, which was unsolicited. I did not know this woman was a magistrate. She is also a doctor. She said this is the worst possible principle. Many people would subscribe to that view. I will not press my amendment tonight but I ask the Minister to consider it again and consult with his colleague to do something about it. I would be surprised, but maybe he could urge him to do something about this. If it did nothing else, this amendment, which I am not pressing, might inspire the Minister's colleague to remove this nonsense, which is a blot on the Irish Statute Book.