Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I wish to raise a number of issues but before doing so I seek a ruling from the Chair with regard to No. 1 on the Order of Business, relating to Thornton Hall. I have a close personal interest in this matter but I am not raising it as a personal issue and I am not seeking an amendment to the Order of Business. However, this is different from almost any order the House has dealt with previously. The House is acting in loco for An Bord Pleanála under section 26 of the Act. My concern is that we are not being seen to exercise discretion when we propose to take this matter without debate.

I have spoken on this issue both in this House and in the justice committee so I am not seeking a debate for my sake. However, I am anxious to get a clear ruling on this. My view is that it is dangerous to take this matter without debate lest any Member wishes to say something about it. A number of cases have been lost in the High Court recently where similar decisions were taken by bodies which were not able to point to where they exercised discretion or formed a judgment. I believe this is an important issue. I am not proposing an amendment to the Order of Business but I am anxious to have it on the record that I raised this matter because I believe it leaves it open to challenge.

I support the points made by Senator Fitzgerald about the Order of Business. It is important to acknowledge that the Irish people have taken a democratic decision, and it behoves us to accept that decision. It is unacceptable to hear people such as President Sarkozy proclaim himself bemused by our decision. I did not like the decision and, indeed, opposed it but that decision has now been taken. President Sarkozy might be better employed finding out why we have spent the last two years trying to clean up the difficulties created by his country taking a democratic decision. It is no different, much as I dislike it.

On the other hand while we must accept democracy, if I had given up on an issue every time a vote on it was lost, I would have stopped talking about 30 years ago. The people who won the referendum should be aware that winning a vote does not mean one is right. I cheered when democracy gave us Robert Mugabe but found out some years later that I was wrong. It was the same democracy that gave us George Bush and, indeed, Adolf Hitler. In fact, it was democracy when Barabbas was chosen and a finer man was left to swing. The fact that it is a democratic decision does not mean it is the right decision. We must accept the decision but we must also proceed on that basis.

It is a clear decision and I accept the point that we must work our way through it and examine the reasons that people voted against the treaty. Somebody will have to explain to the people in Roscommon that even though they voted "No", they will not get their hospital.