David Norris (Independent)

I think Senator Mullen is using this amendment to make an ideological point and there is merit in some aspects of it. I was rather surprised, however, to hear him — even with a sense of irony — appearing to equate the Roman Catholic Church with tarot cards, fortune tellers and that sort of business. From time to time, I have criticisms of the Vatican and even of the distinguished hierarchy of this country and some of its organs but I would hesitate to put them at that level. Senator Mullen is a braver man than I am.

It is true that members of the public are routinely gulled by people who present themselves as being able to forecast the future, read palms and so on. These activities, for example, reading the horoscope in evening newspapers, are often harmless but they become inimical to people's interests when considerable sums of money are extracted from people through telephone charges and the lengthy introduction and preamble one has before getting to the meat of the situation. This practice has been exposed on radio programmes and by investigative journalists and I understand the communications regulator has intervened on occasion.

I assume the same circumstances apply in the case of sex services, although having not called them, I am not 100% sure what they are. I might try to do so this evening — prompted by Senator Mullen — to find out what takes place. I imagine the process is similar to the other practices to which the Senator referred. I am not sure if it involves telephone sex or whether tarts are available on the other end of the line. I imagine the telephone sex lines operate in exactly the same manner as tarot card lines, with callers being required to go through a long build-up during which they are asked whether they are sitting comfortably or what is the colour of the wallpaper and told the weather is nice. They might then be told by the person on the end of the line that they are feeling warm and will now remove a glove — that sort of thing. The whole point is not so much to get one excited but to keep one on the telephone for as long as possible. If the caller gets too excited, it all might come to the boil which would end the conversation. I am not sure it can be taken entirely seriously.

While I would not be very happy with the idea of proselytising, it would not bother me that much if it would satisfy some people. However, it would be an extraordinary device and one I would not like if politically motivated religious groups had an opportunity to intervene in political matters and use paid advertisements to attempt to influence decisions from outside the House on what are viewed as moral matters, such as sex services or whatever terms are used.

I agree with Senator Mullen on one point. I remember a number of occasions on which perfectly reasonable advertisements, some of which were religious, were refused on RTE. It was prim of RTE to exclude these advertisements in the manner it did. It was wrong also not to allow radio advertisements for concerts organised to protest against the Iraq war. People do not have to go to such concerts and it was not as if the organisers were making arguments in paid advertisements, which merely stated that those who opposed the Iraq war might like to attend the concert. The advertisement was banned. On balance, Senator Mullen has raised a point, albeit one that is not as substantial as he believes and is likely, if the discussion is prolonged, to lead to levity and low humour in the House.