David Norris (Independent)

I support this series of amendments in principle, as I would have supported the previous amendment about religious broadcasting, but I simply do not like mandatory quotas because they tend to get filled up with pap if one has a requirement for a particular percentage.

I am slightly surprised that the amendment survived because it seemed that if it were to work, as I hope it does, it might create a charge on the Exchequer. I know the Department of Finance is very finicky in managing to excise from the Seanad anything that might have the slightest appearance of causing a charge on the Exchequer.

It is a very good and well-conceived amendment. We are all aware of the number of bought-in programmes, especially from the US, which are televisual pap and fillers. It is not just RTE which does this. If one looks at the schedules of Channel 4, which was a very advanced station in its day, one sees all these competitions, game shows and programmes about moving house and buying places in the sun. They are not of any great content and I am amazed they get viewers but, clearly, they must.

We have some very good stations, one of the best of which is TG4, which is a descendant of the station created by Deputy Michael D. Higgins when he was Minister in a move similar to that suggested by Senator Mullen. The latter is correct not to limit it just to the examples he gave. There certainly are large numbers of elderly people, including people in nursing homes, a fair proportion of whom do not seem to notice very much of what is on, although there will be some who do. It is mind-numbing if they are forced to watch these bought-in game shows all the time.

Many others would welcome a civilised heritage channel. During the vote, I asked Senator Mullen what this kind of heritage channel might be. I have criticised American programmes but the US has some very good public broadcasting channels, for example, the Public Broadcasting Service, PBS, and Home Box Office, HBO. They show classics of both British, American and perhaps even Irish drama. They show Jane Austen and things like "Moby Dick". That would be very welcome.

We need to make it quite clear that if this does get off the ground, as I hope it may, it will not just be so-called "diddley-aye" music and that we will not define Irish culture in these narrow terms. I am sometimes quite shocked at the way in which Irish culture is defined. A friend of mine from abroad has repeatedly said to me, when I complain about drinking and vomiting on the streets, that it is part of our culture. It is not as far as I am concerned.

We have things of which we can be very proud, such as the films of George Morrison which rarely get an airing. We have some very capable and creative people. There are programmes on architectural heritage going back to the beehive oratories, ranging through the great monastic buildings and cathedrals and taking in remarkable Georgian architecture. For example, we only have to look at the ceiling of this Chamber which is a masterpiece of 18th century craftsmanship by the stuccodore, Michael Stapleton. Perhaps some programmes could be broadcast on that.

How will this station be financed? If this proposal goes ahead, we need to be clear about the way in which it will be financed and how it will get its budget. I am very pleased to support it. I am satisfied that the definition of culture that has been suggested in contributions in the debate is wider than what I, perhaps unfairly, dismissed as "diddley-aye" music because there is some such music which is very good. There is also some very good jazz music and some remarkable Irish jazz musicians. If the definition of culture is to be fairly broad, I am very pleased that we should have a heritage channel. If it is handled in the same way as TG4, it could be very much to the benefit of people and give enjoyment to a fairly wide range of people.