Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)

I am happy to participate in this debate. I noted the Labour Party's motion and listened with interest to its Members' contributions. I support a number of the points made, as they were fair, legitimate and realistic in so far as we have experienced many of the situations outlined. I also noted the countermotion.

I have the height of respect and regard for those who work in the health services. I commenced my career in wholesale pharmaceuticals and dealt with pharmacies, doctors and hospitals. Due to my interests, I became a member of a health board after first being elected as a councillor and worked with the various systems and structures. Later, I worked in the Department of Health and Children. I welcome some of that Department's officials to the House. I worked well with them and it is welcome that they are continuing their good efforts. I am one of the few people who have been in everything from the back of the shop to the front. My family is involved in the pharmaceutical business. I have worked at the front door, the back door and every other door of the hospital system and I have worked with management and health board structures.

There are benefits and problems and we could do better than we have done, but the solution is probably not to be found in either the motion or the proposed amendment. When the health board system worked, it worked well. I was approached about whether I would participate in changing the health board structure in the greater Dublin area to allow a regional authority to come into being. My colleagues and I, rather than a single Minister, considered the proposals on structural change. One of the Minister of State's officials could pencil a note correcting me if I am wrong, but I believe the Minister of the day was the current Leas-Cheann Comhairle, Deputy Howlin, of the Labour Party. Other Ministers, including Deputies Noonan and Martin, were involved.

Some of the structures put in place in the greater Dublin area worked. For example, shared services proved significantly beneficial. The health boards' muscle allowed them to do a great deal to improve services in certain respects, such as administration and purchasing. The boards were able to use the purchasing power or muscle of those involved to implement a wage system or to make purchases. We brought together the voluntary, statutory and charitable sectors, a considerable and unprecedented breakthrough.

The HSE is too great a step. The Minister referred to 11 health boards, but I believe that we had 14. We went from 14 to one, a step too far. I ask that Senators not tango over this issue and that we achieve a unity of purpose to try to find the right model.

We should not do so on a Twenty-six Counties basis. We achieved success in the greater Dublin area by finding a model that worked. Everybody agrees there must be change. As I said, I have not dealt with the specifics of the motion or the amendment.

My time is up but I hope to have another opportunity to engage in a thorough debate on this issue.