David Norris (Independent)

I thank my colleague, Senator Bacik, for sharing some of her time with me. I also welcome the Minister of State to the House and wish him well in his career. I think he is a very appropriate choice because I happen to know him slightly but I have also been very impressed by the highly capable, intelligent and humane way he has dealt with matters such as this and other politically related matters in the media in recent weeks. As they say in the country, he comes from a good stable. With a father and an uncle like his, he could not but start with good credibility in this area.

I was especially impressed by one part of his speech where he said that: "Two days after the broadcast of the "Prime Time Investigates" programme I met with senior officials from the HSE to discuss, among other topics, the issues raised by that report." It may not be that everything is satisfactory. We know precisely from what Senator Fitzgerald said in a most impassioned speech and also from what Senator Bacik said that things are far from well. That is a good example of what the Minister of State called for in the case of children — early intervention. He intervened early, took action and met people.

I am concerned about other things. Senator Bacik put on the record of the House a number of matters about which I am concerned, as did Senator Fitzgerald. I have been briefed in this area previously by people who are morbidly concerned that if they are employed in this area, their managerial level will find out about it. Will the Minister of State seek to provide a whistle-blower's charter for people within the Health Service Executive? However good "Prime Time Investigates" is, it should not come directly from a television programme but from within and from consultation. People should feel protected when they voice legitimate concerns to Members of this House. It is not appropriate for Members of the Oireachtas to receive submissions from people who plead with us not to reveal their identities for fear of damaging their careers.

The Minister of State spoke of support for families to reduce the number of children who may become dependent on State care. That is not sufficient and is far too weak. While I abhor comments such as those reported in the British House of Commons that the most dangerous place to be is in the mother's womb, which is a frightful comment to make on the abortion debate, we must be very careful about suggesting that the family is the safest place for a child because that is not always so. Child abuse very frequently takes place within the family. Children need to be protected within the family but if a difficulty exists, it is not appropriate just to produce supports while the child remains in situ. I am thinking here of the case of Ms Maria Colville whose return by the social services to her family resulted in her murder. As a result of that case, Seanad Éireann introduced the guardian ad litem clause to protect vulnerable children in that area. Of the 5,000 children who are at risk, there are many for whom no plans are made or such plans that are made are not followed through. Those children have been seriously let down and are a parallel to the children who were abused in institutions.

I wish to ask the Minister of State a number of questions, one or two of which have already been posed by Senator Bacik. Can he tell the House the percentage of children in the care of the Health Service Executive with an allocated social worker? How many cases does the Minister of State and the HSE believe is appropriate, in terms of good social work practice, for a social worker to have on his or her caseload? How many cases, on average, are allocated to HSE social workers in child and family services? How many cases currently are open within the HSE social work department in child and family services? How many cases are unallocated within the service? I would be grateful if the Minister of State would answer these simple and direct questions.