Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

Caithfidh mé a rá go raibh díospóireacht iontach againn ar maidin. Sílim gur b'fhiú go mór an méid seo de díospóireacht a bheith againn. The more we debate these issues, the more I think we should deal with many of them in much more detail at a later stage. I am prepared to use the Seanad for the purpose for which it was established. While it is a legislative body, of course, it also has a role in teasing out issues and finding solutions. In the limited time available to me, I will be unable to deal with the many issues which have been raised. I intend to address one or two specific issues and group the other matters under certain headings. I suggest that we should debate such matters in more detail, as part of an attempt to find solutions to certain problems, at a later stage.

I will deal with a number of issues relating to the rural development programme. The EU agreed the programme, for which my Department and the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food are responsible, last August or September. It is a fallacy to think that any member state could have been ready to start implementing the programme from 1 January. That is not how it works. I accept that two and a half or three months were lost as a result of the issue that was raised by the Cavan-Monaghan Leader group, with which I will deal in a moment. Ireland will be one of the first countries, if not the first country, out of the blocks, as it was in the last programme. It is good that €425 million is still available. It will be spent over a timeframe that is one year shorter. We will have to spend more every year from now on. All the projects have to be approved between now and 2013 and payments will be made in 2014 and 2015. We are still making payments under the last programme, which ended in 2006.

The Cavan-Monaghan Leader group raised a question with the EU, as it was entitled to do. I explained to the Leader groups, which were incredibly supportive, that it would have been wrong of me not to deal with this in a patient manner. I am delighted that the permanent representative received a letter from the European Union in the last week. I would like to quote from the letter. It refers to the complaint made by Mr. Derek McCabe, who is the chairperson of Cavan-Monaghan Rural Development Co-operative Society Limited, about the cohesion process. The phrase "my services" in the letter refers to the legal directorate of agriculture and rural development. The letter states:

I wrote to the legal representative of Mr. McCabe, Mr. Philip Lee, on the 9th of April 2008, informing him that my services will propose to the commission to close the file on his complaint at one of the forthcoming meetings of the commission for the reasons set out.

The letter then goes into the details of those reasons, before continuing:

There is no information which has been brought to the attention of my services to indicate that the additional criteria present in the national programme or country are contrary to the principles of the Leader method, as set out in article 61 of regulation EC/1698/05, which should in general guide the implementation of the Leader access.

It is clear that the EU is perfectly happy with Ireland's implementation of the programme. I would like to make it clear, in response to another issue that was raised, that there is no retrospection. In other words, if one does the work before the grant is allocated, that is it. I think that is common to all grants of which people are aware.

I would like to run through a few more matters before I run out of time. Senators raised many issues, such as rural transport, gardaí and schools, which I like to group together as "social services". Many rural schools not only have class sizes that are as big as anywhere else in the country, but they also have multiple classes, yet still the results are way better. This goes back to my argument about the community culture involved.

In addition to post offices I would cite credit unions, although nobody mentioned their growth and the major contribution they have made to rural Ireland. I see such outlets as a group, not in an administrative or specialist sense, but as regards their role in rural areas.

Speakers have referred to pubs in the context of rural social life, but restaurants constitute a new and growing phenomenon. Do nightclubs suck all our young people into towns? Does the way in which we operate such matters have a detrimental effect? We should examine the issue of social life.

Many infrastructural issues were raised in the debate, including water and sewerage schemes for small towns and villages. I agree with the agglomerating effect in this regard. In addition, we have done quite a bit of work on electricity supplies. Ministers can transfer money where there is no expenditure involved under a certain heading. In other words, if I find for one reason or another beyond my control that there is an underspend in one heading, one can often obtain permission from the Department of Finance to transfer the money concerned.

We are at the final stages of a national broadband scheme, which will cover 99.5% of the remaining areas that do not have broadband facilities. Somebody has made a minor legal challenge but we hope it will be overcome quickly. The result of the tendering process was to be known next month but it may run into the following month. It should be known this summer, however, following which the roll-out will occur. That will bring broadband to every rural area.

There is a saying in Irish, Is fearr deireanach ná go brách, but I believe this rural broadband approach is the only sustainable way of doing it. The way to finish it is through one big bang. The intention was announced last April and it has taken a year to get the preferred final bidders. It is a slow process but it is at the endgame. All the decisions have been made so it can now be finalised.

The heading of social services includes the community services programme, FÁS, the rural social scheme, sport and volunteerism in rural Ireland, as well as services for children and the elderly. I see that as another module. Members have spoken about barriers which exist, but there are also incredible business opportunities. At a time of economic downturn, I can think of a large number of such matters. Senators referred to rural recreation and rural tourism generally. The potential is unlimited because of our climate, topography, countryside, waterways, hills and mountains. We have so many opportunities but we need enough time, effort and energy to get them all operating. We should examine all those aspects to see how we can exploit them.

We spoke about the number of young people attending third and fourth level education, which is an accrued intellectual resource.

The planning debate has been very confrontational. I do not want to destroy the visible beauty of rural Ireland and we can avoid doing so by engaging in a rational debate with those concerned. We should be able to have houses and communities without destroying rural areas. Some planning policies have been totally negative.

The other interesting point is the myth that, by definition, urban dwellers leave a smaller carbon footprint than those in rural areas. I do not believe that and I am willing to debate the point with the leading experts. I recently received a report of the fantastic work being done by the Western Development Commission, including on wood energy. The commission said, however, that wood energy will not work unless one lives near a forest or a timber mill, which are not in town centres. Therefore, if one wanted to cut one's energy usage through the use of timber, one would be much better off in the countryside than in the city. Solar panels have a major role to play and are often easier to install in rural areas where there is more space.

We should have a rational debate about positive and negative aspects of planning, in addition to discussing rural tourism and recreation. Those are just a few headings that we should return to on another occasion. If Senators wish to discuss such elements I am up for it. I will leave that proposal with the Seanad as an offer.

I have a big concern for deprived, disadvantaged rural areas, which come under the ambit of the RAPID programme. Any debate on the positive aspects of rural Ireland must be counterbalanced by the fact that young people in certain areas of our towns and cities are predetermined to grow up amid the greatest disadvantage. What are we going to do about that big challenge?

Despite rural depopulation, some 70% of pupils in a small three-teacher school in my own community went on to third level. That was long before there were remedial and resource teachers. On the other hand, however, there are areas where only 2%, 5% or 7% of pupils go on to third level education. That is a scandal and we face a big problem in this respect. I am more than willing to return to this House to discuss these matters in detail and determine what the physical or social barriers are and how we should tackle the issue. As well as physical renewal in urban areas, we also need social renewal. If we do not change people's social values, we can build all the new physical structures we want but they will not solve the problems which will confront us again in five or ten years.