Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Senators for their contributions to this debate. To a certain extent I echo what Senator Ryan said. Under Transport 21 we have included in the programme for Government a commitment to improving bus services by reforming the bus licensing provisions under the Road Transport Act 1932. We aim to facilitate optimum provision of services by providing a level playing field for all the market participants, public and private. It is my intention that, following the enactment of the Dublin Transport Authority Bill, the Government would bring forward a Bill on public transport regulation to reform the licensing system of 1932. If there was ever a consensus on anything, perhaps for different reasons on different sides, it is that the 1932 Act must be reformed and changed. I had to give priority to one piece of legislation and this is the one which has received it. I assure Members of the House that the Government intends to follow this with a public transport regulation Bill. In that context it would be inappropriate to pre-empt a major review of that existing legislation by giving powers to the authority at this time to issue licences under the existing arrangements. Everyone agrees that they are outdated and unresponsive and we have had some good examples of that recently.

The proposed Bill on public transport regulation will deal with the replacement of the Road Transport Act 1932 and the elements of the Transport Act 1958 that relate to the provision of bus services by State bus companies. Under that legislation the bus licensing regime will be designed in a manner consistent with the new EU public service obligations, PSO, that will come into force in December 2009. It will apply to all commercial bus services, including those provided by Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus. It will also provide new criteria regarding a system of penalties and this will offer appropriate deterrents for breaches of the licensing system by those considering application. As a replacement of the 1932 Act, the legislation put forward by Government will be, in general terms, a contract with the providers of transport. The contracts will contain certain stipulations and criteria that must be met. People will compete at that level for the business whether via funded services or commercial ones. Until that time the Bill before the House will allow contracts to be put in place over the next few years with the existing public transport providers in the greater Dublin area — Bus Éireann, Bus Átha Cliath and Iarnród Éireann — for services already in operation.

With regard to public transport I am no believer in privatisation or in competition for the sake of it. I have neither ideological hang-ups nor an agenda about this. I have said as much to unions and to the management of the companies involved. I have two responsibilities. One is to try to provide a safe, efficient, economical and good quality customer service for all consumers in the greater Dublin area who want to use public transport or transport in general. I have said to management and unions in the public transport companies — Bus Éireann and so on — that my other responsibility as Minister is to ensure we get absolute value for money for the very substantial amounts of taxpayers' money put into the system. I am not prepared to have a situation where taxpayers' money is fed into a public transport system that is inefficient, has bad work practices and which does not deliver a quality customer service. I do not say that is what we have at the moment but the reason I have asked the review to be undertaken is to see how well we are utilising the capacity we have. Are there practices and efficiencies that would improve it? Are there things that we must do regarding current routes, for instance? Might they be subvented in certain cases where at present they are not and are therefore causing problems for Bus Éireann or Bus Átha Cliath? On the other hand, might there be routes being subvented that do not require it because they are commercial? We must ensure we have all this information before we make final decisions in this regard.

I agree with the sentiments expressed by almost all speakers in the House, whether or not they advocated competition, as to the merits of having a public transport system that is efficient and effective and which gives a good quality customer service. I have read much literature since coming to this office that urged blanket privatisation and the throwing open of everything to competition. That is not the solution. There must be a balance and we intend to keep that. The existing routes that Bus Éireann and Bus Átha Cliath operate will be signed up for by contract, with criteria ordaining what must be delivered. Under EU PSO regulation that contract will be available for five years, subject to review after that period. In that way we can ensure we will get the efficiency, effectiveness and value for money. The other side of this, as I said to Senator Donohoe, is that operators can and are willing to provide services on a commercial basis in the greater Dublin area. We will encourage that and will continue to issue licences for this. We will try to ensure the situation continues in this way in the interim.

When we talk about competition, I have a concern. I know from speaking to unions and workers in Bus Éireann and Bus Átha Cliath that we must have a level playing field. I believe strongly that if we were to throw the market open completely or even move in that direction, the one thing we would have to guard against is the competition we talk about being brought about on the backs of people who work in transport. In other words, I do not want private companies coming in that will pay half wages or less than minimum wages to people if they can get away with it. Neither do I want companies that will offer inferior working conditions and so be able to compete with a public transport company on that basis.