Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Members who have spoken on this Stage of the Bill and for the constructive manner in which they have approached Second Stage.

Some speakers on the Opposition benches have referred to this but I wish to clarify it is not my intention to have Committee Stage before the House next week. I believe the House should have another week before Committee Stage to allow for Members to table amendments. I am in the hands of the House in that respect and I will try to facilitate its wishes. I agree with Members who said it is important that due consideration be given to this Bill. We will be returning to the House with the Bill because I do not believe I will have the time here to insert the couple of amendments to which I referred. The Bill will return to the House after being dealt with in the other House.

Members raised a number of points in the debate about different aspects of the Bill. When I was Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government some years ago there was talk then about some kind of a co-ordinating agency in the greater Dublin area. There was talk ten years ago and even before that a couple of attempts were made. It is important that the agency be put in place.

I want to reassure Senator Fitzgerald and other Senators that this will not delay Transport 21 projects. The authority will have the responsibility for implementing Transport 21 projects. It will have a responsibility in planning strategic transport in the greater Dublin area for 12 to 20 years hence but it will not interfere with the plans already in place. The Bill allows the Minister to retain powers so that if there is a Government policy such as Transport 21, an agency such as the Dublin Transport Authority or any other authority cannot decide to abandon such a policy and implement a different policy. This agency will have the responsibility to deliver Transport 21 and will have the power to deliver it.

In answer to a number of points raised by Senators on both sides of the House about the power of the authority, it will have the power to direct agencies, including the NRA, to take certain actions. This may include directions on buying land or property in order to facilitate road development which is necessary for either public transport corridors or for road transport. It will also have responsibility for disbursing in the greater Dublin area the €12 billion to €14 billion of expenditure which is currently earmarked under Transport 21. If agencies are not doing what they should do with regard to Transport 21 this agency will have the power to step in and either provide the service itself or ensure that some other agency provides it.

A number of Members raised the issue of the membership of the board. Senator Ellis, in particular, was concerned that mechanisms be put in place to ensure timely responses to Oireachtas Members. I am in favour of that. However, without casting aspersions on Members of this or the other House, I do not want this or any other body's time to be taken up with answering frivolous questions. If we are to go down this route, consideration must be given to drawing up an agreed code of practice or protocol. All Members may be guilty in this regard from time to time. I am sometimes dissatisfied to see departmental officials spending time on particular parliamentary questions. I would not like to be obliged to ask any agency to tie up valuable staff time answering those types of questions.

However, the central point, which was made by Senator Ryan as well as Senator Ellis, is extremely important, namely, the necessity to ensure there is accountability from these bodies. This includes accountability to Oireachtas Members; to local public representatives, who have a legitimate interest in such matters; and to the Minister, who must ensure policy is implemented in accordance with Government wishes. I hold up my hands in acknowledging that mistakes have been made in the past. Particular entities have been given too much freedom and power, and an insufficient degree of accountability was demanded in return. I am prepared to consider any suggestions that will strengthen the Dublin transport authority in this respect.

Senator Norris asked why I, as Minister, should seek to retain the power to make nominations to the board of the authority. We may have philosophical differences on this point. It is my view that a board, authority or agency that is established by a Minister must be answerable to that Minister. The latter must take full responsibility in the Oireachtas for the actions of that entity. He or she must, therefore, have confidence in its members. That is why the Minister should have power to nominate to the board of the transport authority.

Senator de Búrca made several points about the activities of the Railway Procurement Agency in respect of the Luas extension into north Wicklow. I will bow to her superior wisdom on this given her local knowledge of the area. However, I am not sure it is fully accurate to say that the RPA was obliged to change its plans as a result of a public outcry. The process that took place was a good exercise in consultation which allowed people to make their views known. As a result, an agreed solution has been devised for that line. The RPA has generally engaged positively in that type of consultation and people are usually satisfied that their concerns are addressed. That is the feedback I received on metro north, for example.

Several references were made to Part V of the Planning and Development Acts 2000 to 2006, which has been a bugbear for Oireachtas Members and local authority staff in recent years. One cannot possibly separate land use planning and transport provision, although it was done in the past, by omission rather than anything else. This Bill aims to bring the two together to ensure there is communication among the two Departments, the local authorities and the Dublin transport authority. The basic approach we are adopting in regard to development plans is that the local authorities, comprising the democratically elected public representatives for the area in question, retain their supremacy. That is extremely important. However, they must take full account of the area's transport needs when drawing up the development plan.

Where the Dublin transport authority has some issue with the development plan, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will make the call. When the opposite is the case, that is, it is a transport issue, the Minister for Transport will decide. The reason for this is simple enough. Senator Ellis made the point about the process going on forever, with no statutory period. There is nothing greater than the capacity for two official bodies to procrastinate and put off decisions where there is some dispute. If there is a dispute between local or regional authorities and the Dublin transport authority, in either direction, the relevant Minister must take responsibility and give the go-ahead or otherwise. That will obviate some of the Senators' concerns in this regard.

I have referred to most of the main points raised by Senators. I thank them for their contributions and look forward to Committee Stage when we will have an opportunity to tease out some of the issues that have been raised. I welcome whatever amendments Members wish to put forward. Some of them have experience of me in this regard, particularly those who spent many long hours debating the Planning and Development Bill 2000. Where I conclude that an amendment will improve the Bill, I will be perfectly prepared to accept it. I will approach the debate in a constructive way.