Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Dromclough national school, Listowel, County Kerry, has been already brought to the attention of the Department of Education and Science by Senator Ned O'Sullivan, who shares my interest and concern in this regard. I wish also to raise the situation at Rahan national school, Mallow, County Cork.

Both schools have experienced various problems for many years. Of concern to both schools is their position on the Department's list. The Department's school building programme is based on various stages including stage 1, initial sketch; stage 2, design; stage 3, tender, action, evaluation and award; stage 4, construction; stage 5, hand-over of works and so on. Two problems arise, namely, the Department regularly changes the stages of development and there is no clear transparency in this regard. I know that the Minister of State has had to deal with these issues. Schools must be kept informed of their position on the list and of their progress from year to year.

Dromclough national school has experienced subsidence in sections of its building; the heating failed completely and had to be replaced; pipes underneath the building are broken and floors are cracked. One might well ask what the problem is. The problem is that the school has been waiting more than two years for a site visit and is having difficulty obtaining information through Tullamore and the various press offices. When one phones the building section, one is told it communicates only with the Minister's office and when one rings the Minister's office one is told to ring the building section. This has happened. I have a record of it in my office. I spoke to a person in the building section and was told to take up the matter with the Minister's office. When I contacted that office I was told to take up the matter with the building section and the person in the Minister's office with whom I spoke then put me through to the same person in the building section who earlier could not deal with my query. The system is a nonsense. We have complained about procedures in the HSE on various occasions, but I have outlined what is happening in this Department. I should not have to raise this matter here. I should know exactly what is the position in regard to these school projects, what will happen next in the process, when the next stage will occur and what is the likely stage of projects in the process. That is simply not happening.

We need to know the reason Drumclough national school has been waiting one and half years for a technical team visit, and the names and locations all the schools on the list awaiting a technical visit. The Minister usually appoints such a team at the beginning of each year, but we do not know the exact date of that proposed technical visit. We do not know why the school was not assessed, when it will be assessed, who will assess it and where it will be ranked on the list. I could go on about the position of this school.

Rahan national school has a problem of rat infestation and a school building issue. The project is at stage 1, preliminary level, but it should be processed to stage 2 because it has been designated as a school that needs to accommodate the requirements of a principal and eight teachers. Why has a stop been put to the school's progressing to the next stage of project? The board of management had an open discussion with the Department of Education and Science in Tullamore last month about the position, but the Department would not commit on the position. It has said that a ministerial decision is required and that the project is subject to funding, whatever that means at this stage.

The principal of Rahan national school told me that the school he attended in the 1960s was in better condition than the school of which he is principal. This position is appalling. There are many schools in a similar position. The principals and teachers in these schools do not believe their pupils are getting the chance to which they are entitled in a modern 21st century school.

The difficulty is how the schools progress from step to step in this process. Members should not have to raise the case of three or four schools on the Adjournment every week. We should know where schools are on the list of projects and the schools that move up the list. Such a list should be no different from an accident and emergency list, a waiting list to see a consultant or to have an operation. The position should be clear and projects should move from one stage of the process to the other.

Transparency is needed in this process. While I appreciate that the Minister of State's reply will be circumscribed, as that is the nature of these matters, can he tell me when these two schools will be given clearance for the process to move to the next stage? If he cannot tell me that, can he tell the problem preventing such clearance in these two schools? We are not aware of any problem, the school authorities have met the demands and done everything required of them, but they still do not know what will happen next. I look forward to a positive reply from the Minister of State and to hearing that something will be done.