Rónán Mullen (Independent)

First, I compliment Senator O'Toole on amendment No. 14.

There are a number of issues to which I want to respond briefly. I note a certain disquiet. Generally, I am disappointed by the Minister of State's contribution. I know he as an individual means well but he must carry the can for the Government here. I am not as convinced as he is that the Government is engaging in fresh and properly researched and informed thinking here, and particularly on the authentic search to try to vindicate the welfare of persons in prostitution. I say that with no apologies. I know the Minister of State is personally sincere but I am not happy that the Government has looked at this properly, I have said why and I do not resile from that.

Part of the problem here is that there is almost a squeamishness about speaking about this issue because it is seen as somehow an unacceptable kind of moral issue. There has been a long tradition of debate about the extent to which the law should seek to enforce morality. Students of law will remember the great Hart and Devlin debates. We should not be ashamed about speaking of some issues as being moral ones. It is immoral to commit murder. It is true to say that there are some moral issues that we do not seek to enforce using the law, for example, rightly, we do not try to criminalise adultery. However, let is not be afraid of speaking of some issues as having a moral content because whenever one speaks of looking out for other people, one is in the area of morality or ethics — the terms are interchangeable in my view.

I noted with interest what Senator Alex White had to say. I felt that there was a note, albeit a respectful one, of censure in his voice. It would be important to state that people should not misconstrue our passion on this issue for some kind of a lack of respect for different points of view.