Lisa McDonald (Fianna Fail)

I cannot support the amendments. However, as I said on Committee Stage, the debate as regards prosecuting people for purchasing sexual services from prostitutes requires a wider debate and should have its own legislation. It is not just that aspect of this particular realm that should be included in that legislation. We need also to look at brothel keeping and the advertising of prostitution services, the use of the web and the need for a dedicated vice squad, not just in the capital, but outside the greater Dublin area. Funding for this must also be considered.

I support the tenet of what Senators Mullen and O'Toole propose. This is excellent legislation and it is needed. However, I believe we are creating a grey area which appears to suggest it is all right, in one sense, to purchase sexual services from a prostitute of the home-grown variety, but not someone who has been trafficked. We are creating a grey area, even though the law is already grey. During the debate on Committee Stage I heard details of Acts dating back to 1860, which left me somewhat confused. We require an amendment of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993. I note a sexual offences Bill will hopefully be introduced and in the event, that is the area where this debate needs to be held.

It is interesting in the context of the Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill, as it is proposed and will hopefully be enacted, that this issue is the one that has bogged us down most — and attracted the most debate. It is something the media need to highlight. I am glad we have had some reaction from the debate in the Seanad on the last occasion. It is something that needs to be discussed more widely. Any lay person to whom I have mentioned it over the last week has been shocked by the imbalance of the law in this area. Many of the men I have mentioned it to just nodded, smiled and put their heads down.

We need to get rid of the embarrassment factor in our country as to how we treat women. A wider debate on how women are treated and what we have on the Statute Book to protect them is enormously important. In that context we also need to have a debate on the purchasing of sexual services. Somebody told me during the week the only people who want to see criminalisation with regard to the purchase of sexual services are nuns and feminists. I am neither. I am not overly religious. Although sometimes I believe life is turning me into a feminist, I did not start out as one — or intend to be one.

That is not what is intended here. We are concerned with dignity and human rights and treating people with respect. Another person asked me during the week whether I should like my sister, mother or someone I knew to be involved in this — and what were the root causes. This is the type of debate we should have. Knowing how committed the Minister of State, Deputy Brendan Smith, is to the law and trying to get it right, I urge him to see we get some clarity on this issue. It needs to be brought forward. It is not for this occasion, and I completely agree with everything Senator Alex White has said in that regard. We need to get this Bill onto the Statute Book as soon as possible. However, as a young woman living in Ireland, today, I would rather live in Sweden than in Amsterdam.