Rónán Mullen (Independent)

While I understand the Minister of State's dilemma, as he is obliged to represent the Government's position, the arguments do not hold up. I was thinking of the phrase, "smoke and daggers" as I listened to some of the arguments, in that some of them throw smoke around the issue but do not offer any compelling reason not to criminalise generally the purchase of sex. The Minister of State let the cat out of the bag somewhat when he stated the law does not take a moral stance on consensual activity between adults in private. Members know this and it is fine when one is speaking of private consensual activity and is not speaking of the purchase of sex. However, this implies something of the Government's thinking in this regard, which is that the issue of the purchase of sex generally is to be seen as a form of consensual transaction between adults.

This is the problem because there is a failure of the imagination in this regard. There is a failure to see that one cannot simply consider the prostitution contract as a kind of ordinary, respectable contract or private matter between the parties so consenting. At issue is the exploitation of vulnerable people and whether those vulnerable people are of a mind to state they choose to be in the prostitution industry is immaterial. When one considers the circumstances that lead people to choose to enter prostitution, it makes no sense to talk about free choice. There may be some rather zany or perverse people who, armed with many other choices in life, choose to go into prostitution but those people should not guide Members in respect of public policy in this area.

I acknowledge Senator O'Donovan's point when, while commenting on the penalties proposed in my amendment, he suggested that a potential life sentence might be somewhat extreme. I do not quite recall the words he used. While I accept his point, I am content to press this amendment, subject to the Minister of State's response, on the basis that the amendment allows discretion in this regard because it states, "to imprisonment for life or a lesser term". Consequently, this will not import an overly-draconian measure into the law.

I refer to the Minister's comments about the law already providing, at least to some extent, for the criminalisation of those who solicit and that this might include the client in certain circumstances. This is a red herring because it would not cover the generality of situations in which clients avail of the services of persons in prostitution. Within the past week, Members have learned of Chinese-run massage parlours in Dublin, in which a person is offered prostitution services in the context of attending or entering a massage parlour. Members are dealing with a seedy and murky world in which a person is not obliged to solicit in public to avail of the services of a person in prostitution.

One should consider some of the arguments that are made behind the scenes. While I will not name names in the House, policymakers have been known to tell people concerned about this subject that if one were to criminalise prostitution, certain rogue elements within the Garda Síochána, for example, would try to blackmail potential users. That such an argument would be even made informally reveals an entire mindset that one should deplore because one could make that point about any law. A person might seek to use any criminal law to blackmail a potential user. It also manages to imply that the potential user is doing nothing very harmful. One also hears the suggestion that those who avail of the services of people in prostitution are somehow sad figures who should not be criminalised. Again however, this is a matter of enforcement. Decisions will be made about when to seek to prosecute and when not to so do. One hears the unhelpful argument that prostitution is a form of vent in our society for the outlet of certain sexual urges that cannot be controlled. This however, is to turn the persons in prostitution into guinea pigs for, or victims of, some aspects of the sickness within our society.

Senator O'Toole made an excellent point when he pointed to the incongruity of the user being the only person who does not face criminal sanction. I also wish to revisit the Minister of State's comments about Sweden and the statistics in that regard. I found this argument bizarre. It was not apparent to me that the Minister of State had any great confidence in the statistics. Rather, his approach appears to be if in doubt, do nothing. However, our approach should be if in doubt, do something. I note that Sweden has not repented for its 1999 legislation to criminalise the purchasers of sex generally. Criminalising the purchase of sex generally does not solve the problem, even of trafficking, but displaces it. That is the important point. If Sweden's law has brought about a position where people are trafficked not to Sweden but to other countries, is that not evidence of its success? Is it not the responsibility of those other countries to amend their laws accordingly?

I remind the Minister of State that we are an island nation, therefore, displacement in this regard will not be easy. No doubt the British have a long established constitutional and parliamentary system and they will be able to take appropriate measures, if as a result of our criminalising the purchase of sex, there is an increase in the number of people being trafficked to Britain instead of to Ireland. The displacement argument makes no sense. I reiterate that what the Swedes report is that there has been a small increase in the number of persons trafficked because this is a problem that has been on the increase everywhere, but what is remarkable is that Sweden has had less of an increase in that regard than other countries. At a time when the incidence of trafficking has been on the increase in other countries, it is remarkable that the Swedes have managed to more or less control the problem. This is an example of a smoke and daggers argument. It is no argument to say Sweden has seen a slight increase in trafficking, if the rest of the world or its adjoining countries have seen a massive increase in the problem.

We need to revisit the point about what happens when we criminalise the purchasers of sex generally. How do we risk driving the problem further underground? All we will do is create a disincentive for the potential user, be that a person who wants to ring a number on a mobile telephone, walk into a brothel or surf the Internet. There is no counterstep the potential trafficker can make to undo the effect of criminalising the user or the purchaser. Therefore, the argument put forward is a smoke and mirrors or a smoke and daggers one.

On that basis, I ask the Minister of State to have a change of heart in the interests of human rights, human dignity, solidarity between the sexes in our society and of recognising that those who purchase the services of other persons in prostitution engage in a grave attack on human dignity. It is time for a courageous stance to be taken. I ask the Minister of State, at the very least, to undertake to bring forward a suitable amendment on Report Stage. I will await his response on that before committing myself one way or the other on the amendment.