Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)

I have been highly impressed by the manner in which Senator McDonald has spoken on this very good debate and I congratulate Senator Mullen on tabling this amendment. It brings to mind the role of the law in changing behaviour. In the area of equality for example, many changes to legislation were required before actual changes in behaviour were observed. Although I do not know whether Senator Mullen is prepared to support this, I ask the Minister of State to take on board the statements made in the House today and to return on Report Stage with a fresh view from the Government on this topic.

The trafficking field is changing dramatically. Some years ago, I asked the then Minister for Justice, Deputy John O'Donoghue, what were the numbers of children who were being trafficked or were coming into Ireland unaccompanied. I subsequently attended an international conference on the topic and quoted the reply I had received, which was that the number was very small. However, it was not accurate and in general, Irish figures on this issue are inaccurate. There is enormous under-reporting of what is happening.

During the Second Stage on this Bill, I stated, "human trafficking is recognised as the third most lucrative international crime after drugs and arms trafficking", which is extraordinary. As for the debate on whether the criminalisation of the buying of sex in this fashion will drive everything underground, a great deal of such activity is underground anyway. A further point is that we take very strong action against those who try to sell drugs. Although the introduction of more laws to deal with the supply and marketing of drugs drives the trade further underground, we continue to develop our laws to ensure we can deal with it. This is not necessarily an excuse, although I realise there is concern in Sweden that a certain amount of the sex trade has moved to Finland or to other countries and to a degree, the jury is still out in respect of the exact impact of the measure. Nevertheless, the point remains that one should move in the direction of criminalisation and should not be ambivalent.

This entire area has been characterised by an ambivalent approach over generations. Increasingly however, one can see the connections to crime, trafficking and drugs, as well as the sheer scale of the business, which also obviously is linked to pornography. I support those Members who raised the question of free will and prostitution. Although it is glamorised frequently, as Senator Donohoe stated, it is a far from glamorous world. It is a highly seedy world that devalues and diminishes women. Research on women in prostitution frequently shows they have had deeply unhappy early childhoods, have been the victims of abuse and have had little choice in the career paths they wished to follow.

I ask the Minister of State to examine the amendment and to return on Report Stage, having considered whether a Government re-think would be possible in this respect. It does not appear to make sense to me. I note that in the Dáil, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform either accepted an amendment or stated he would consider the amendment proposing criminalisation of sex with trafficked women. Am I correct in this regard?