Joe O'Toole (Independent)

If the Minister of State did nothing during his time in office other than accept or rewrite this amendment to make it clear that those who use prostitutes are breaking the law and should be prosecuted, it would be a fine memorial to him. There can be no argument against the points raised by Senators McDonald and Mullen.

I am familiar with a number of quite logical arguments regarding the legalisation of prostitution. I can accept that there is a case for and against legalisation and that it is a matter people can discuss rationally. However, I have never heard any argument in support of the situation that currently exists in Ireland. Of the three people involved in the eternal triangle of pimp, prostitute and user, only the first two are regularly convicted. However, the user — the person who creates the demand — is never prosecuted. It was stated that legislation exists in this regard but I have never heard of a person being prosecuted for using the services of a prostitute. Perhaps the Minister of State will indicate when that legislation was last invoked because, during the past 20 years or more, I have not seen reports in respect of prosecutions under its provisions in any of the newspapers I read.

The case in Ipswich was concluded in the past week which concerned the killing of five prostitutes. We have all read about that case but I am unsure if people have read about the fallout from it, which is quite interesting. I have listened to and read the words of various people in social services and counselling from the Ipswich area who have explained what they have been doing for the year and half since the culprit was arrested. They have managed, through counselling and support with a very small amount of money, to take a significant number of women out of prostitution.

As Senator McDonald quite rightly stated, the number of prostitutes in the business by choice is minimal. The idea that the trade being referred to as the oldest profession gives it an attractiveness because of polite language is utterly unacceptable. Anything I have read about prostitution indicates and convinces me that 99% of prostitutes are in prostitution because of drugs, other addictions, poverty or because they are simply under the control of unscrupulous people. That is the reality.

It seems the case is unanswerable but that trafficking and prostitution are inextricably and intrinsically linked. People are not being trafficked to work as au pairs in south Dublin or to earn decent wages and pay taxes. People are trafficked for the simple reason of being further forcibly and involuntarily involved in crime in the country to which they are being trafficked. It is clear the majority are crimes based on sexual exploitation.

This leads us to the user. In this morning's newspapers we read of somebody being prosecuted for looking at a form of pornography on the web, which is a pretty passive experience. When that piece of legislation went through the Houses, many people were a little worried that this act was a long way removed from the crime and the child who was being abused or the exploitation by pimps, etc. The more it was discussed and people thought about it, the more certain we were that these people were creating the market. The people looking at child pornography were creating the demand and for that reason we had to take the steps to get rid of the problem.

With regard to Senator Mullen's proposed amendment, we are considering demand. If it becomes a prosecutable crime to use the services of a prostitute, a crime for which somebody generally will appear in court, it will change the whole ball game. The man in Ipswich apparently used to drive around the block four or five times, looking these women up and down before finally making a choice. Everyone knew about it and he was on CCTV etc. Those five women would be alive today under a different set of circumstances.

Some 99% of trafficking is for the purpose of creating a market in prostitution so there is an inextricable link. Any argument that it is some way out of place in this proposed legislation is not correct and does not hold water. What we are trying to do here is focus on the demand area rather than the supply, which is always the most effective way to deal with such issues, whether they involve drugs, prostitution or trafficking. This proposed amendment deals with that point.

No person of decency, correctness or logic could argue against the amendment. Unless there is a convincing and compelling argument as to why this should not be passed — or an amendment very like it — we will have done a very bad day's work in not doing our utmost to push this to its limit.