Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)

The Minister of State earlier outlined the position in respect of amendment No. 8 which everyone welcomed as a step in the right direction. The new section 6 proposed in the amendment relates to "Soliciting or importuning for purposes of prostitution of trafficked person." Perhaps the Minister of State might bring clarity to the situation, if not now then on Report Stage.

As I understand it, the purchasing of sex is an offence. If so, which legislation applies in that regard? The Minister of State referred to a particular Act dating from the Victorian era. The Bill deals with the trafficking of human beings, 90% to 95% of whom are women. Surely there must be a strong legal framework in place to deal with this matter. I understand such a framework exists in our domestic legislation. One cannot make availing of the services of trafficked women, primarily by way of prostitution, an offence and not make the availing of the services of prostitutes in general — who make up the majority of those in the profession and most of whom are not trafficked — an offence. I ask that the Minister of State clarify the position in that regard.

Amendment No. 14 in the name of Senator Mullen provides that a person convicted on indictment could be sent to prison for life or a lesser term. Life imprisonment is a major penalty and in some instances perhaps it is deserved. Everyone seems to agree that the abuse and sexual exploitation, in one form or another, of trafficked persons, particularly those who are women, should be prevented.

Senator McDonald referred earlier to the 1885 legislation mentioned by the Minister of State. That legislation criminalises clients who use, for example, prostitutes. From 30 years of practising law, I am aware that said law is more ignored than observed. I am not aware of too many instances in which this Act was invoked and prosecutions under it are almost as scarce as teeth in a duck. There appears to be a tendency to accept that prostitution has been in existence for thousands of years and that we should turn a blind eye to it. I do not advocate this view.

There is a view abroad that if we accept prostitution — I do not advocate that we should do so — we should deal with it as it is handled in other countries, namely, that it should be brought out into the open, regulated, etc. I have heard people suggest that we should do as they do in Amsterdam and other European cities where prostitution is quite open and above board but where regulation and medical controls are in place. The prostitutes in these locations are not being trafficked and are, perhaps, being exploited to a lesser extent. I am not stating that the latter is any more acceptable than what occurs here.

If the Minister of State cannot assure me that either this Bill or existing legislation will lead to those individuals, primarily males, who exploit women being brought before the courts, I will be obliged to support Senator Mullen. I also wish to indicate my support for the forceful argument put forward by Senator McDonald.