Alex White (Labour)

I also welcome that we are having this discussion and I welcome the Minister's contribution. However, what was just said by Senator Walsh contrasts to some extent with what the Minister has been able to say in his contribution. While I could not disagree with anything the Minister said, it might be the consensus in this House or those of us who have spoken so far that while the Minister has made an important contribution, it does not go far enough. I agree with Senator Walsh's argument that we need to be far more robust and take on this issue at least in the context of a motion or a real and robust debate on an actual proposal for action to be taken by our Government and the British Government rather than simply confining ourselves to making statements in this House, important though this procedure is.

As the Minister outlined in his speech, there has been a significant change in our country, North and South, in the past ten years and even in the past year. New institutions are in place and there is a new level and spirit of real political co-operation between North and South. A new political dispensation is in place which I strongly welcome, support and wish to promote in any way possible.

The Minister also said that we cannot turn our backs on the past, an argument with which I concur. We cannot say that atrocities, collusion and dreadful events that occurred can simply be left there. Closure is a word that is often used. This word is problematic because people whose loved ones have been injured and killed and who have been affected by atrocities, be they large public ones or ones that are not so well known, never really have closure. When we use that word, it covers a multitude of things because people affected in that way never have the sort of closure we might like them to have.

At the same time, public bodies and institutions such as Parliament and Government must do everything in their power to ensure matters that ought to be exposed, be they in respect of State action or inaction or the action of paramilitary groups that has occurred, are exposed and not confined to the past. That should occur in circumstances where they should be the subject of public debate or criticism of bodies, including Government. The overall spirit of the new political dispensation has been very much in the context of a human rights approach.

If there is one individual I would point out as embodying that human rights approach to evaluating the past and moving to the future, it is Nuala O'Loan who was the Police Ombudsman in the North until recently. She took a human rights approach to what needed to be done in respect of criticism of state actions and the police and assisting all of society to move forward in a spirit of co-operation and healing.

It is not enough simply to talk about healing or moving. Sometimes governments must take action to ensure that occurs. To that extent, I agree with what Senators Cummins and Walsh have said, namely, that we need to do more to put in place a series of actions to follow on from reports such as the Barron report to ensure we learn from the lessons of the past rather than simply talk about or debate them.

There is no doubt the sub-committee to which Senator Walsh referred has made some valuable suggestions. My colleague, Deputy Joe Costello, as a member of the sub-committee, often criticised the failure to act in this area. He has made four reasonable proposals. Senator Walsh suggested a motion should be proposed. I agree with Senator Doherty and others who say there ought to be a debate based on a proposal, but in the absence of that, what Deputy Costello has proposed, in respect of the final reports of the sub-committee, is that at a minimum the interim and final reports of the sub-committee, and the report of the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings, should be formally received and endorsed by both Houses of the Oireachtas.

Deputy Costello also proposed in the other House that the Ceann Comhairle be called on — the Cathaoirleach of this House should be also called on — to inform the Speaker of the House of Commons of the passage of a resolution in these Houses and to send copies of the relevant reports and other documents with a request that the matter be considered by members of that House. If there is to be a spirit of co-operation between political parties and parliaments, the Houses of the Oireachtas should inform the House of Commons and the other parliaments in the United Kingdom of what we have decided and invite them to debate it.

Senator Walsh referred to the efforts of the Taoiseach. These Houses should call on the Taoiseach to renew his efforts to secure the agreement of the British Government on the courses of action recommended by the sub-committee. The Taoiseach should be invited to report to the Dáil and the Seanad on a regular basis on what he has managed to achieve in that regard. I do not doubt the Taoiseach's good faith in respect of this issue but it is frustrating to witness his frustration on the issue and to see him on television and elsewhere appear to throw his hands in the air saying he has done everything he can do and we can establish no more from the British. It is not enough for us to wash our hands of the issue. The pressure must be maintained. The Irish Government should render it a major international imperative that the British Government should respond much more satisfactorily to the demand that it produce information it undoubtedly has, whether it is recorded by the spooks and others in MI5 or MI6 or in Government papers. Wherever the records are they should be produced and we should continue to maintain pressure on the British Government to do that.

These Houses should call on the British Government, as a sign of its good faith in dealing with the legacy of conflict, to provide access to all of the original documents relating to the atrocities that occurred in this jurisdiction, and in particular the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in 1974 in which 32 Irish citizens, a French and an Italian citizen were killed. That documentation should be produced. There is no legitimate excuse for it not to be and pressure should be maintained, at an international level if necessary, for that to occur. If we are not successful at that level, the Irish Government should give serious consideration to instituting proceedings in the European Court of Human Rights to force the British Government to co-operate in that regard. The Irish Government took the British Government to the European Court of Human Rights in the past in the course of the early stages of the Troubles. Now that the Troubles are behind us it is vital that the British Government be pressurised in every way possible, if necessary through international litigation against it, to ensure it produces the documentation and gives the support and co-operation that any democratic government ought to be willing to do.

Like Senator Walsh and every other Member of this House, I grew up during the Troubles and reports of a body in the ditch on the nine o'clock news every night, week in, week out. It is a huge advance to have moved away from that, if a civilised society can say such a move is an advance. I was in school at the time of bombings in Dublin in 1974.

I ask the Minister to consider another issue to do with our Government's willingness to shine a light on dark areas of the Troubles, namely, the killing in the early 1970s of Garda Richard Fallon in this city. I am a very close friend of members of Garda Fallon's family and they make a legitimate request of the Government that full and clear confirmation be given to them that all of the available information, documentation, State papers and so on regarding that atrocity in the heart of the city of Dublin be produced by the Irish Government. It is much more difficult for us to demand, as we rightly do, of the British Government to co-operate and produce documentation if there is any doubt about our willingness to produce all of the documentation, State papers and otherwise on that terrible event in the 1970s to that family. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Devins, to do so today or perhaps the Minister could come back to the House and indicate whether that has been done and, if not, when that family can expect it will be done.