Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Seán Haughey, to the House. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Conor Lenihan, for his earlier contribution in which he said:

We must work to ensure an intercultural society where the different cultures speak to each other, listen and ultimately enrich each other in the context of a common aspiration to promote the welfare and values of a new Irish society.

The Minister of State put that forward as a challenge and I agree with it. I do not believe, however, that the rest of his speech went down that particular route. It is much more practical.

I agree with the point Senator Regan made about language teachers. I will not deal with it now as time is short but he is right to say that important matter needs to be addressed. I also acknowledge the point made by Senator Mark Daly and others concerning additional language teachers. It was a battle to get them and they are doing a great job, but the system needs to be tightened up along the lines Senator Regan outlined.

There is another issue I wish to deal with and about which all sides of the House should express outrage. We cannot accept a situation whereby every single appeal to the Refugee Appeals Tribunal has been rejected. That cannot be right, so we should examine the matter closely. I disagreed with criticisms of the previous Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform by those who called him fascist and racist. He was right-wing and conservative in his viewpoint but he is certainly not a fascist or a racist. He is far closer to libertarianism than anything else. I did not often agree with the way in which he tried to do things, but I do not think he deliberately established a refugee appeals system to operate as it does. Somebody should examine what is going on in the Refugee Appeals Tribunal. I am not saying there is any greater wisdom on this side of the House than the other, but we want to know what is happening. If a certain number of cases go before an appeals structure and not one of them succeeds, questions must be asked.

The recent economic boom has been fuelled by immigrants. In every significant developed economy in the western world, the second generation of immigrants have provided an extraordinary injection into the successful development of the next phase of the economic cycle. We have seen that happening in the United Kingdom, the United States and elsewhere.

I do not wish to argue over words but I welcome that not only the Minister but also the Department has moved from a concept of multiculturalism to one of interculturalism. A significant point in Irish life was marked by the establishment of the country's first Muslim school, although it did not give rise to the discussions which I felt were necessary. It was a good thing to reflect our openness in allowing another religion and culture to flourish, but it was not a good thing in the sense that we were just giving them their own private space. That is basically what leads to racism and apartheid. It is not about giving space to different groups, which is multiculturalism. Interculturalism, however, is where one measures a community by the quality of the engagement between different cultural backgrounds. That is a challenge not just to our society but also to immigrants.

To take the point Senator Mark Daly made about south Boston, the Bronx or Cricklewood, we can see that we were basically buying into establishing places where only Irish people lived. The challenge to every immigrant group in this country is not just about integration but the fact that there must also be a certain cultural compromise by immigrants. There are too many do-gooders in this regard. I support and defend immigrants but that does not mean one does not pose questions and create challenges for them. I want to see second-generation immigrants playing in all-Ireland finals, but it must be allowed to happen by encouraging immigrants to participate in Gaelic games and whatever else is going on in this country.

In recent times, we have seen communities standing by immigrant families and trying to prevent them being sent out of the country. Such cases occurred in small communities, which is the answer to Senator Daly's point. They happened in Bantry, Killarney, Sligo and Athlone where communities banded together because they knew the immigrant families concerned. Such families had become part of the local community, taking part in local festivals and living there. In a place such as Gort, for example, the Brazilian culture is probably stronger than the Irish one. The Brazilians have intermingled and created a community there. We are talking about community building but to do it we need to be fair and firm. It is not about opening our gates to anybody who comes in but about recognising that when people come here, they come in through a process. That is why it needs to be regulated at all times. It does not mean having open doors because regulation is required and that should reflect labour force requirements.

In addition, we need to be humanitarian and recognise that some asylum seekers are economic migrants. There is nothing wrong with that if they make a contribution to our society, learn in our schools and add more to the community. It does mean, however, that a certain cultural compromise is required when they come here. The fact that people leave their own country to come here means that they have made a decision in that regard anyway. They are now living here and we want to see them playing Gaelic games and understanding Irish culture. That does not mean that we seek to change the core values of their own culture but it does mean a certain amount of assimilation, although I know some groups hate that word. In other words, to integrate one must assimilate to a certain extent into Irish society, and that means giving up some things that were valuable in one's own country.

When Irish people went to America they had to merge, assimilate and make certain cultural compromises concerning what was going on in that country. They may have had to adopt new attitudes. Irish people in America now celebrate Thanksgiving in the same way they celebrate Christmas, and thus have two festivals.

Last year, there was a row about a Christmas tree in Tallaght Hospital because some people thought it would be insulting to those who were not of a Christian persuasion. We should not allow ourselves to get into such a nonsensical argument nor give credence to those who provoke such arguments. They do not deserve any answer apart from the kind of debate we are having in this Chamber. People must recognise that there is give and take in all these matters.

The real issue, which was raised by Senator Mark Daly, is that Irish people went to America and other places and suffered discrimination. Chuaigh a lán acu as na Gaeltachtaí gan focal Béarla acu. Ní raibh cuid acu in ann scríobh abhaile nó labhairt leis na daoine timpeall orthu. Labhair siad Gaeilge lena chomhleacaithe i pé áit ina rabhadar — Springfield nó Boston, mar shampla. They never really settled in. The worst thing was that they became discriminatory toward coloured people in the United States. This type of discrimination reverberates down through the generations and we must address that.

I am supportive of groups representing immigrant communities and always ask them if they can point me to the best role model in the world which has the best immigration policy for which we should aim. I never receive a complete answer but it is quite interesting that the thoughtful people in those groups invariably suggest three countries, namely, New Zealand, Australia and Canada. What is important is that those three countries have firm immigration policies which are perceived to be fair. It is about ensuring the system works in a way with which we can all live.

It is important we reflect on the fact that immigrants have brought considerable economic benefits to this country and deserve to be treated fairly, with equality and to be fully educated. That is investment in our future. Immigration is good and necessary for this country and economic development is dependent on immigrants coming to this country. That is the reality, so we need to make it work. We also need immigrants to make it work. That is the type of conversation which should take place between us and the newcomers to this country.