John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)

I thank Senators for their contributions to this debate. It is an opportunity for me to listen to all parties and what they have to say on the SME sector and the State agencies that guide us through this process to sustain jobs and win new contracts, be they IDA or Enterprise Ireland.

Senators John Paul Phelan and Alex White referred to the public service, one with regard to its deficiencies and the other with regard to the need to acknowledge the good work being done. In my contribution, I acknowledged it is undoubted that there are decent, hard-working people within the public service delivering policies on behalf of the Government. The question is whether they have the appropriate dynamics or systems in place to deliver to an economy that is now very different and dynamic, and where demands change on a regular and immediate basis.

My suggestion is that we need reform, and that we need to look at the elephant in the room as well as the changing of the old order. We need to ensure the public service has the processes and systems in place to allow it to progress, while at the same time releasing the new energy and liberating public servants. The unions and the Government need to work in partnership, with all in the political system, to make this happen.

I constantly hear complaints about delivery within the public service. I support the need for change and the need to confront the elephant in the room. I will not stand back from this debate because it is one this country needs. There is benchmarking for those employed in the public service but there is another side to the issue. The private sector demands that if one is paid on one side, outturn and performance should be measured to ensure we are getting the best for our country. The system in the public service does not allow this to happen.

I listened attentively in the Dáil to Deputy Michael D. Higgins, a politician I greatly admire. What he has to say is common sense and is usually part of an excellent contribution, regardless of the subject of the debate. He commented on the morals of those in the world of commerce who have their snouts in the trough and are getting an enormous amount of money in salary and bonuses. I suggest that, through the Committee of Public Accounts — Senator Boyle referred to this point — we need to further examine the morals of those in the public sector, given that the members of the committee see evidence of millions of euro being spent incorrectly or lost to the economy because we simply do not have the systems in place to deal with the issues that have arisen.

These are the questions we need to ask ourselves and it would be wrong of us, as public representatives, not to do so. If we question the performance of the private sector and insist on best practice and regulation, with which I agree if it is not too heavy, we have an equal obligation as public representatives and legislators to ensure the best performance from the public sector and to ensure we give every public servant the opportunity to perform in a system that is modern, dynamic and can respond to the investment being made in it.

Through the years, we gave that system nickels and dimes because we did not have funds available but we are now spending billions of euro. Members should watch the Committee of Public Accounts and they will understand this change. I worked with Senator Boyle on that committee and saw the change in spend. When we focused on roads infrastructure and other projects, we achieved value for money and ensured that contracts came in on time. This in turn serves the development of the economy because it is infrastructure that is most needed, as noted by Senator John Paul Phelan and others.

I am in favour of and support those who work in the public service. However, we need to demand the same from the public sector that we would from a normal modern business dealing in global markets. The money collected with such diligence by the Revenue Commissioners needs to spent on behalf of the taxpayer with the same degree of diligence. We should expect this from everyone, including politicians, who should be judged on their outturn.

I disagree with the huge amounts paid in bonuses to individuals in the public sector. Bonuses must be earned and must include a performance element. If not, how will those public servants further down the pecking order view them? As with the call to academics in terms of education, we need to call on those who serve the system. Since I made my public remarks in the Dáil and elsewhere, a great number of people in the public system and the trade union system, and those working in and outside this country, have agreed that change is needed. I would be wrong not to say this because it is what I believe, as much as I passionately——