Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Ba mhaith liom an Aire Stáit a fháiltiú go dtí an Teach arís. Gabhaim buíochas leis as ucht teacht anseo, mar go raibh mé ag lorg an díospóireacht seo le cúpla mí anuas. Tá mé thar a bheith sásta go bhfuil sé ar siúl. Tá sé ar intinn agam labhairt níos leithne ná na margaí iad fhéin. Labhróidh mé ar ábhair éagsúla a bhaineann le córas bia na tíre seo.

I should begin by agreeing with the point Senator O'Sullivan made. I was in this House when the Abattoirs Act was passed. I believed then and still believe it was the most regressive measure on food safety introduced in my time. Something that was intended to protect our food got rid of traceability. Traceability became an issue only when we eliminated the local abattoirs. I said at the time we should have insisted on certain standards in local abattoirs. However, we chose to introduce a state of the art set of regulations for which only wholesalers could qualify thus putting the small butcher in a local town out of the market. I even tried a fallback position some years later. I suggested the State might help out by building abattoirs in a location so that a butcher could go and kill his own animals in that central abattoir and have his own chilled room or cold room there with his own key. When butchers bring an animal to be slaughtered they can never be 100% sure that what they get back is all their own. Nowadays they have got much cleverer about it. It is an important issue and should be revisited.

The Minister of State might find this somewhat peripheral. Approximately one year after the introduction of the Abattoirs Act we introduced a set of regulations for the establishment of restaurants, which is still intact. They are appalling. They covered everybody's needs, mainly to protect the vintners in case restaurants started selling a pint of stout. The Minister of State should walk into a restaurant in France or another European country, look at it physically and then come back to Ireland. When somebody talks about a rip-off republic in Ireland and that restaurateurs are overcharging, he will see why. I have never seen a restaurant in France with two toilets for instance. Regularly they would not have the additional set of doors we require to get into a toilet. They can produce their food on the table much more cheaply than we can.

There is a quality issue relating to farmers' markets. My mother used to sell fruit and vegetables, among other things. I could walk into the house blindfold the day that the Irish tomatoes came on the market at the start of the new season. They had a beautiful smell which one does not smell any more unless one grows them in the back garden. I know that the Minister of State grows his own and he knows precisely what I am talking about. An Irish tomato can be eaten like an apple, both for the smell of it which is gorgeous, the taste of it which is gorgeous and the colour which is gorgeous. Chefs will say that to slice open a home-grown or backyard-grown Irish tomato is unique. Many chefs in Ireland use tinned tomato for the simple reason they cannot get the desired quality in the tomatoes bought in a shop.

I have raised another issue ad nauseam for the past 15 years in the House. People come back from places like France or Spain with photographs taken in the local market — in places like Patagonia in South America or wherever — which show the vegetables on display in the market. They then wonder why we cannot have the same in Ireland. The reason is quite simple and the answer can be found where I live in north Dublin.

I happen to live in the Minister of State's constituency and we in north Dublin can live off the vegetables that fall through the sorting machines of the local vegetable producers. These are perfectly good cucumbers, peppers and tomatoes which do not meet the size and shape requirements dictated by some boffin in Brussels as being proper for our needs. It is madness that perfectly good, tasty fruit is being dumped because it does not conform to a sorting process and this should be investigated.

I know that the issue of food miles is close to the Minister of State's heart. One of the problems is that much of the food we grew up with and loved is no longer available because it does not travel well. I will cite an example. Anybody of my age or anybody who grew up with an orchard in the back garden or in the field next door, or anyone who ever robbed an orchard in his or her youth, when people still felt it necessary to rob an orchard, will remember that the main apple was Beauty of Bath. It was a lovely striped apple with red and yellow running through it and a bit of red visible when it was bitten into. The problem is the Beauty of Bath apple does not travel well; any contact and it bruises. It is not commercial and therefore it is not available to buy and has disappeared from the market. However, it could be sold in local markets as local produce.

I stand to be corrected but I have not seen home churned butter in any of the farmers' markets I have visited. It is no longer available and it has a distinctive taste. Cím í gconaí ag féachaint ar im ar na seilfeanna, bíonn various types of butter such as salted, unsalted, sweet, or not so sweet. Butter is butter in Ireland. I wonder if we are losing out but I do not know the reason. I am certain we are losing out by not havinghomemade butter available.

I completely agree with a point touched upon by Senator O'Sullivan on the question of the relationship with the local shops and the local authority. This is where a certain amount of regulation could be introduced. Some farmers' markets are better regulated than others. I refer to the milk market in Limerick where stands are bought for a year at modest cost. The market is kept nice and clean and it complies with certain basic regulations without the need for somebody with a clipboard coming around. The market is well run and it pays a fee to the local authority which allows for the fact that a market creates litter and needs to be cleaned up and nobody will object to this practice. Markets also draw people into towns.

I have views on many issues to do with this subject. Local delicacies have been lost over time. The Listowel fair sells what is generally called in Listowel and north Kerry a Kerry pie but it should correctly be called a Dingle pie. This is a mutton pie which is made locally and is a delicacy. Abraimis faoin sliogán dubh, big hard mussels, which are a delicacy in many parts of County Donegal. They could be available as a local delicacy, such as tripe in other parts of the country. There is not an area in Ireland that does not have a local dish and their sale in farmers' markets would make them known and understood by people.

I recently visited a market in Castle Street in Edinburgh, just off the main drag. On a certain day every month, what is called an international market is held; we might call it an immigrant market. Hot food is sold from every country imaginable. This is an element of multiculturalism which would fit in very well with farmers' markets and would allow people to learn more about each other.

This subject was raised by me in this new Seanad when, to the great amusement of the rest of the House, I asked what had happened to Irish mutton. It is no longer possible to buy Irish mutton. The British have realised this is an important issue and Prince Charles is now the patron of the British Mutton Society. I ask Members not to make any jokes about this fact but even the Acting Chairman is laughing. Prince Charles is the patron because he wants to preserve the specific taste of mutton and he is absolutely right.

In the south of France in the Pyrenees, mutton is called mouton as opposed to agneau. The French also sell something that cannot be bought in Ireland, a year-old chicken, named a chapon. These are usually corn-fed and they are all numbered. Roquefort cheese is a farmers' industry in a tiny part of France. Every single roll of cheese is numbered. I recently watched a television programme in which Irish people went to Italy to run a food business on a swap basis. They were in a cheese business where every single roll of cheese was stamped and numbered to allow for traceability. There is much that we could do in this area.

I will conclude by making some brief points. I have a curiosity on a million issues which could never be fulfilled. I refer to one of the aspects of the current situation which drives me mad. I recently visited Birr, County Offaly. I went into the butcher's shop next door to Dooley's Hotel because I usually go into shops when I visit a place and ask about their business. I asked them whether they sell much meat to the hotel next door. It is kind of question we ask in Kerry but people in the midlands are more reticent——