Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)

I was lost in the wonderful outlinings of my colleague, Senator Norris. He has distracted me from my train of thought and diverted me in another direction. Will the Minister clarify the issue of costs? Senator Walsh gave the example of a successful plaintiff who subsequently incurs the costs of an appeal by the defendant on the basis of the award granted. In the event of the Supreme Court granting €80,000 rather than €100.000, for instance, the person who has been defamed would be penalised on costs.

The National Union of Journalists, RTE and other elements of the media have made the point ad nauseam that the costs incurred in libel and slander cases are so severe that they far outweigh any award granted. Even where a relatively minor reduction of the figure awarded is ordered on appeal, the cost of that appeal is levied entirely against the unfortunate litigant who has already proved that he or she has been defamed. This is a cause for concern. A case heard in the Supreme Court for seven or ten days, with senior and junior counsel, could involve legal costs of €500,000. A plaintiff whose award has been reduced from €100,000 to €50,000 thus would incur a net loss.

On the question of libel and defamation, have our parallels in Europe been considered with the thrust of this Bill? My knowledge of libel and slander is that mainland Europe has a far more liberal approach, even in the European courts at Strasbourg. There was an interesting case involving a politician in Austria, I believe, who was very fond and proud of his reputation. He was taken to task by a particular newspaper on a few instances and he sued the publication. I am not entirely sure if this happened in Austria or Germany. The politician lost the case and appealed it to the European courts.

There appears to be a number of precedents in European courts where the court has taken a liberal view, particularly when a politician is involved. The courts appear to deem that if a person is in the public eye running for office, or succeeds in becoming a Minister, that person is fair game.

When I chaired the Joint Committee on the Constitution, we reviewed the area of libel and slander under the Constitution. Of all European countries we would be seen as one of the more conservative nations, with our awards in general being much higher than others in Europe. At the higher echelons of our European courts, the area of libel and defamation, which this Bill tends to marry, is treated far more liberally and is less kind to the person instigating the action. This is particularly relevant to politicians because, irrespective of whether we like it, politicians have had a stand-off with journalists, especially over the past 20 years, in terms of there being a shift this way or that.

If we were to be honest, we would like the current system retained. On the other side there is a hue and cry by the print media and journalists in general that our awards and old defamation and libel laws have been far too generous to the plaintiff.