Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)

Yes. This issue was considered at the time with particular reference to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. It became clear that the convention does not prescribe that a straight cash payment must be made. If a state makes indirect provision — Ireland devotes quite substantial resources to indirect provision — rather than making payment by way of child benefit that is equally acceptable under the UN convention. That is the position at present. While I agree the numbers are small, there is a range of reasons. The figures clearly indicate that our society wants to look after children irrespective of where they come from, and we do that well. According to the current examination for which I have given Senator Bacik the figures for January to August this year, more than 28,000 applications were granted and of 3,430 that were examined, 90% got it and only 341 failed. The system is being more than fair to and conscious of the rights of children. That is important. Where there is direct provision that is equal and counts as making a direct cash payment.