Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)

I want the Minister to return to address that aspect.

Instead of clear incremental progress, we see one tragedy after another. I must put to the Minister what many people say, that the HSE in its present form is a failed entity. It would seem that the burdensome administrative difficulties prevent it from carrying out its intended function. This view comes from all of the partners in the health system, where there is considerable concern.

There was not a re-organisation when the HSE took over, although there has been a significant increase in management. There was no redundancy package and no attempt was made to streamline services and responsibilities. It seems that this failure is coming home to roost.

There is a cloud of confusion as well over the difference between governance and implementation, which the Minister should address. Professor Drumm's visit to the Oireachtas showed up the confusion between governance and administration. I recognise his visit constituted an attempt to give us direct information on his experience of the services, but at its heart there is confusion. Surely it is the HSE's role to implement the Government's health policy.

The Minister must be concerned about this. I read with interest her article in The Irish Times today in which she referred to the establishment of the health forum but there is a real sense within the health service at present that there is a lack of partnership and trust between all of the interested players, and the frontline players feel this greatly. There seems to be a policy which favours the unilateral approach on many issues. One example is co-location, where there was no Green Paper, no White Paper, no consultation and merely an ideological view that it was the way to proceed,——