Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)

If tomorrow will not dawn with free preschool education, it is incorrect that a person on a low income should be prevented from securing an affordable preschool place for his or her child. Therefore, resources need to be targeted so that families can avail of the advantages of child care for the sake of the parents and the child.

I was accused on Monday night of only being interested in children, which is an interesting accusation at a child care meeting. However, I would not like to overstate the comment in the recent Health Service Executive report that Donegal is only one of four counties in which none of its crèches that were inspected were given the all clear because minor issues can prevent a crèche from obtaining a clean bill of health. However, the child and his or her welfare should be to the fore in the provision of child care.

I refer again to the issue of those who sense their jobs are threatened by the recent changes. Both at Monday's meeting and on other occasions, the priority placed by facilities in Donegal on keeping abreast of best practice and ensuring staff undergo constant training was highlighted. This concerns balance because it is important that if a national preschool programme is to be developed, facilities must be given the ability to buy expertise or to ensure training is undertaken. If the subvention is provided as outlined, will the development of expertise be impeded? I may bore people by continually referring to the connection between music and the brain but the neurological proof and research is only being published now. To maintain this expertise, we cannot call a halt to such research and we must always try to keep people up to date.

Small community facilities are legally required to maintain a minimum number of staff. Is it proposed to provide a minimum level of support through the subvention scheme? How will such facilities survive otherwise? When two-teacher primary schools were under threat, Fianna Fáil made a decision to support them, whether the pupil numbers were maintained. A minimum subvention payment should be provided for community and other child care facilities to ensure the staff can be retained. For those working in crèches and other child care facilities, a recent report by the Border Counties Child Care Network revealed that only 12% of child care workers earn wages deemed acceptable by child care groups and trade unions. Can we stand over this continuing? Will the subvention be sufficient to support the facilities in place even to deliver wages in compliance with the national minimum wage legislation?

I wonder about voluntary groups incurring charges under the scheme. For example, I asked a number of the child care groups in Donegal to forward precise information. I received a fax from one group in this regard last Thursday while the debate was under way and I raced to the Chamber to give it to one of the Minister of State's officials. The group felt that instead of paying €30 per week, clients on social welfare would have to pay €95 a week under the new scheme, which is a significant increase. However, the officials examined the case and it transpired the group had made a substantially incorrect calculation. Category C clients will pay €36, an increase of €6 while category A clients, those on social welfare, will pay a greatly reduced fee of approximately €12 per week.

I do not condemn the group's administrators for providing incorrect information because they are only volunteers. The difficulty is a group does not look after five children in five specific categories for five hours a day, five days a week. The cases of which I have heard involve complex computations. For example, two children under the age of one may be in a child care facility for two hours, three days a week and the parents may come from different social backgrounds. The calculations involved are much more difficult than people might believe.

The other case that was brought to my attention involved a girl whose first child is autistic. I appreciate that tough cases made bad law. This girl said that she did not mind my referring to her case. Her second child was born and she has suffered from depression. She began working because her doctor said it would be the best thing for her. She was working 17 hours per week. She looked into this scheme and noted that if she continued to work 17 hours, she would not qualify for the type A subvention, whereas if she worked 15 hours she would qualify for social welfare benefit. Her case was an anomaly and I wonder how many more anomalies exist in the case of other people.

Not every facility will accept children with special needs. I wonder whether we have to separate the ability or disability of the child from the financial aspect. We talk about disadvantage but sometimes geographical disadvantage can be as bad as financial disadvantage.

I am delighted the Minister of State has agreed to meet a delegation from the Donegal child care forum to discuss its issues first-hand. That meeting is urgent. I thank the Minister of State for the forthrightness with which he has spoken when people were listening and that we have seen the best scheme emerge and that it is an evolving one. I look forward to the Utopian days when the Opposition can freely advocate when everything is free but I realise that will take a decision by the people of this country——