Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Yes, absolutely. I said that one must start somewhere but it is incorrect and unfair to say we are talking about people on low incomes. There is a simple way to deal with those who do not reach the threshold to which the Minister of State referred. If the State recognised the cost they are paying for child care, the obvious thing is to grant them tax relief on that expenditure. That would create a level playing pitch and would mean that persons going out to work would not be discommoded as much, although they would still face unacceptable costs. We are currently losing a major creative input for the economy because large numbers of women in particular do not have this opportunity. The Minister of State is correct in saying that one must start somewhere and it is important to start with the severely disadvantaged and then move to those working on the minimum wage. The Minister of State cited the figure of €550 per week, but what can one say to the person above that threshold? The Department of Finance will say there is always somebody above the threshold, but we are penalising people for going out to work.

In my last employment, I lost three superb workers due to the cost of child care. They were not in low-paid employment but they could not afford the costs involved. By the time they covered such costs plus taxation and the other displacement costs of going out to work, it was not worth their while to do so. We are all losing out because of this. The Department of Finance does not recognise that there is a loss to the State in this. It looks at the penny-pinching aspects of giving money here or there, but we are all losing as a result.

To move forward from the Minister of State's points, while recognising what he has done, people above that threshold should be at least permitted a tax break. If they pay between €200 and €500 per week for crèche facilities, depending on the number of children they have, what is the argument against giving them a tax break on that cost? I would like to hear it. I will give the Minister of State an argument to use with the Department of Finance in the Estimates debate. Given that we are losing the creative and financial input of such people who cannot afford to go to work because of child care costs, what does it cost the State? We are all losers as a result.