Dominic Hannigan (Labour)

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. It is a great pleasure to introduce this Bill. It is vital for tackling the growing problem of gangland crimes and serious crimes here. Although we have heard time and again about how serious crime is being tackled, the reality is that the problem appears to be getting worse. This Bill is required to put a witness protection scheme on a statutory footing. The need for the Bill is unquestionable. We will seek agreement on it and approval for it from all parties to ensure it is enacted.

While pick-pocketing might be on the decline, innocent men, women and children are being shot on our streets. While there might be a reduction in the incidence of petty vandalism, the hard fact is that drugs are still being imported and are available in every town and village. Gangland crime is rising, but the Government appears to have no ideas as to how to deal with it. Our Bill could significantly reduce the level of serious crime here. It would provide a way out for criminals who want to give evidence on some of their colleagues and it would help to collapse crime from the inside.

I wish to refer to how such schemes work elsewhere, how the current Garda arrangements fall short and why such a scheme is desperately needed here. I will outline some aspects of how the Bill will work in practice. Many Members will be familiar with the concept of a witness protection programme. When Robert Kennedy was US Attorney General, he worked with Gerald Shur who took evidence from Joe Valachi and, in the process, helped to expose organised crime in the United States. His work with those witnesses led to the setting up in America of the witness security programme established under the Organised Crime Control Act. Since that Act was introduced in 1970, 10,000 convictions have been obtained due to the operation of that programme. Without it, many witnesses would never have come forward as there would have been fearful of the risk to their lives.

This programme, and the one the Labour Party proposes, provides that when a witness gives evidence and prosecutions are made, witnesses simply disappear under the protection and supervision of the government — they appear to fall off the face of the earth — and in return hardened criminals are almost always convicted. We have established that in nine out of ten cases convictions are obtained under the US programme.

Some people might be concerned that some witnesses would reoffend. In the studies to date, the recidivism rate is 17% compared to a rate of 60% for people who have been released from prison. Similarly, some witnesses might be concerned that if they were found out, there lives would be put at risk or that they would be tortured. No one who has carried out the rules of the programmes has ever been exposed by any of their former colleagues.

In the US the programme has proven so effective that some of the larger states such as California and New York have set up their own state-based programmes for crimes that are not covered by the federal programme. Schemes are also in operation elsewhere in the world. Some 60 cases are currently going through under the programme in Poland involving 160 witnesses. Such programmes exist in Lithuania, Bosnia, Australia and Canada.

At a conference on this matter in the United States last year, 17 nations were represented. These countries need such a scheme, as do we. Despite assertions by the previous Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform that when it comes to gangland crime, we are seeing the last gasp of a dying wasp, the reality is that since he made that statements gun murders here have totalled 80.

People who carry out gun murders here simply get away with it. The conviction rate is only 16%. Five out of every six gun murderers get away with it. Detection rates must increase. The level of confiscation of guns must increase. Stopping the importation of guns must also increase and, most importantly, conviction rates must increase. One of the most difficult achievements is to secure a conviction and testimony. Such a programme would allow witnesses to give evidence safe in the knowledge that their lives and the lives of their families would not be threatened. Witnesses often back out of promises to give evidence because they are concerned that they will be exposed and that their lives will be put at risk.

This programme would prove to be fundamental in exposing the criminal gangs that blight our land. Former gang members and victims of gangs would be able to give evidence in safety. The programme also has the potential to see off the last stragglers of the terrorist organisations, such as the Continuity IRA, the so-called Real IRA and the INLA which continue in the proliferation of drugs and acts of brutality around the Border. All it takes is for one person to step forward to give evidence under this programme and the Garda would be able to start an investigation and prosecution.

The Garda programme was established ten years ago. It is five years since it received a major setback when Paul Ward won his appeal against his conviction for the murder of Veronica Guerin. In August 2003, the programme was strongly criticised by the Court of Criminal Appeal in the John Gilligan case. The court held that procedures followed by the Garda compromised the evidence of the two chief prosecution witnesses. The Supreme Court stated there was no reason in law the State could not establish its own witness protection programme. It insisted the terms of such a programme should be set out so participants knew what to expect when they entered it.

As the programme stands, there are no statutory limitations, making it possible for witnesses to come forward to ask for more resources from the State. It is not clearly laid down how far the State can go with the programme, raising the possibility that a defence lawyer could claim evidence was simply bought by the Garda. There is no legal basis for the Garda to provide someone with a new identity. The Bill proposes to establish a means where new identities can be provided to witnesses. If we had a programme as effective as those in the United States, in recent years we would have put 40 so-called Mr. Bigs behind bars with 80 witnesses involved. All Members know we are falling short of such success rates.

Recently on "Morning Ireland", Fr. Peter McVerry, who has done much good work with disadvantaged young people, told of how weekly he puts someone on the ferry to England because they are trying to escape gang intimidation. Will the Government stand up for these people? This Bill can help crack these gangs and allow people to live their lives without fear.

The Bill allows for witnesses and their families to give evidence in safety without their lives being threatened. It provides them with new identities if required. It allows the Government to enter into arrangements with other jurisdictions where witnesses can re-locate and, in turn, other jurisdictions' witnesses can re-locate to Ireland.

In the mid-1990s, the Government got serious about tackling organised crime, with the establishment, for example, of the Criminal Assets Bureau. These steps were successful and helped fight organised crime. It is now time to examine serious measures to fight the ever-growing menace of organised and serious crime. One effective tool in this would be a witness protection programme. It has been proved elsewhere that it works. Every day in the Chamber there are calls from both sides of the House for action on crime. This programme will allow for a witness protection scheme to be established which will help fight the scourge of organised crime. We need the support of all parties. If Senators on the Government side of the House are serious about tackling crime, I ask them to support the Bill.