David Norris (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. We are former colleagues who served together on the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. The Minister of State and I were together at a debate in Trinity College a week or so ago. It was greatly appreciated that he had taken the trouble to come there and talk about the difficult problem of drugs to an audience of young students. He had to leave fairly quickly as he had to be in the House for a vote. Perhaps he will be pleased to learn, however — and certainly I was surprised, as chairman of the debate — that the motion was actually lost, indicating that the young people believed, by a very small majority, it was appropriate to control drugs in this way.

I note what the Minister of State had to say and much of it I would categorise as fire brigade action in response to a critical situation. No one would deny the situation is critical. It is pathetic, certainly in the north inner city, where I live, to see the victims of drug addiction wandering around, confused, unable to sustain themselves properly, causing difficulties for other people and so on. It is tragic for the families to watch this. It is awful when one considers the level of mortality involved, either through overdosing or infection with AIDS and similar diseases. Just as in the case of Ms Susie Long, a two-tier health service is being exposed. Where that woman was sentenced to death for the crime of being poor, in the same way, as I am sure the Minister of State will agree, the vast majority of casualties from drugs are from clearly defined social categories and postal districts in Dublin. This does not mean there is not drug use and addiction among the professional and middle classes, but they simply are in a position to access either the drugs that sustain them in pure form, or rehabilitation. The fact that here again, it is the most vulnerable elements of society that are involved needs to be looked at.

I know it is normal for the authorities to trumpet their successes as regards drugs seizures. That is complete nonsense, however. The Minister of State said the level of drug seizures by the Garda was one of the main achievements. He said customer service was well in excess of the targets set out in the strategy and included a number of significant operations which were itemised. However, a comparative figure indicating the amount of drugs actually seized and destroyed relative to the estimated level of drugs imports as a whole is necessary to understand the situation fully. I understand the seizure figure is only about 5% to 10%, which is certainly extremely small. That has virtually no impact except occasionally to create a type of shortage in the market. I shall return to this because ultimately it is a question of marketplace economics. That does not distress the drug barons because it just puts their profits up. Therefore it is largely a cosmetic exercise.

This is an unpopular thing to say, dangerous and difficult politically, but I believe it to be true. It is time we opened a debate as to whether certain drugs, how many or even if drugs should be legalised. I happen to believe they should be and that this is necessary. It is the only way to defeat the criminal elements because what is driving them is the financial incentive. The only way to stop them is to destroy the financial incentive. I have some support in this. I said this many years ago in this House and the Minister for Health at the time, Deputy John O'Connell, not only agreed with me but went further. He was not only Minister for Health, he was also a doctor. Another informed commentator, Mr. Gay Byrne, who takes a judicious view of matters, has said that at least this should be opened up for debate. Rather than just listing fire brigade actions we should look fundamentally at the roots of this problem. The Minister of State should appreciate that a very senior policeman in Britain, the Chief Superintendent of Cheshire, has indicated that this is also his belief.

The Minister of State may recall, as I do, that some years ago a courageous Roman Catholic priest made heroin, not just clean needles, available in the crypt of his church in Rotterdam. The levels of crime dropped very rapidly by 75% in that area. A similar experiment was tried in Britain but was closed down after diplomatic representations through the American Embassy. That was the most fraudulently hypocritical action from a government that has consistently, certainly from the time of the Korean war, employed drugs as a strategic instrument. Even when the Americans were funding the Contras in Nicaragua, they used covert operations to acquire and sell drugs so that they could pay for arms. What is going on is shameless. The country where one hears the loudest demands for the war on drugs, just as for the war on terrorism, is the United States, yet it has the single most critical drugs problem in the world. If they cannot win it, what makes us think we can? We can offer palliative measures and I salute the Minister of State in doing this. I am glad he has secured an increase in his budget, and he is a thoroughly decent, principled and well-motivated man. However, we must look at the most radical approach to this problem, which might include the legalisation, registration, classification and quality control of drugs. The reason I say this is that it would cut out the financial incentive because one would undercut the drugs barons who would find it very difficult. I know it has been said that they would smuggle them like they smuggle cigarettes. The only reason they are able to smuggle cigarettes is that they are so highly priced. If they were not so highly priced, then it would not be a problem. In addition, one would have quality control and would not have the spate of accidental overdoses by addicts which are caused by the fact that they can never tell the strength of what they buy on the streets or the degree of its contamination. I could not give a figure and would only be pulling one out of the air but there would be a massive decrease in the levels of crime.

Recently, I was at a very fine play written by a tenant of my house. I was glad to see Anne Enright win the Man Booker prize. She was in my attic while Sebastian Barry was in the basement. It was a most literary house with me sandwiched in the middle. As far as I know, I do not think there was any massive drug taking among any of us. However, Sebastian has just written a play, "The Pride of Parnell Street", which has been produced in the Dublin Theatre Festival. It is the story of a drug addict and that man explains it very interestingly. Friends of mine said they would not go to that play to see those gougers, "skangers" and blackguards being made heroes. The character in the play did not want to engage in criminal activity but he robbed and attacked old ladies because of his desperation to get access to drugs.

There are a number of reasons for considering this. I am opening this up because the Seanad is the place in which to do so as it is, very largely, a theoretical debate. I do not for one minute suggest that Dublin should become a drugs haven or area or that Ireland alone should relax its legislation. This will have to be done at least on a Europe-wide level and perhaps a global one.

The Minister of State travels quite a bit and has possibly been through Singapore airport. If he has, he will have seen the signs. One is executed — one's life is terminated — for bringing small amounts of drugs through that airport, yet people regularly do so. Why? If that does not stop them, does one believe our puny laws will do so? I do not believe they will.

It is time to open up this debate. This must be tackled on a global basis and one of the ways we can prepare ourselves for it is to have this kind of debate. There is an assumption that this behaviour of drug taking has always been seen as criminal activity, but that is not the case. It was only in the early 20th century that drug taking became criminal. Establishment figures took drugs. One could go into one's chemist to get them. One could practically get them in one's hotel.

A difficulty which needs to be teased out is the most dangerous drugs, for example, the drugs that alter behaviour in an unforeseeable way. Crack cocaine is one such drug. I have been attacked by somebody high as a kite on crack cocaine. I do not believe they knew what they were doing and that is the problem. One moves from what I call the naturally occurring organic drugs, which are made from plants by a fairly unsophisticated process, to the pharmaceutically derived drugs. There are clever chemists everywhere who manufacture such drugs whose effect on the human brain is unpredictable. That is something which calls into question some elements of my argument, so I am not saying I have the answers. Sadly, however, the Government's strategy does not have the answers either.

Simply by criminalising drugs, one is driving them underground and not affecting the substantial level of imports. One should look at our skimpy Naval Service which, while comprising wonderful people, does not have the resources in terms of manpower, boats and so on. The shoreline in County Cork is a smuggler's paradise.

I thank the Acting Chairman for his indulgence and the Minister of State. I look forward to the debate but would be lacking in my duty if, as I have always done, I did not say what I thought and what I thought was in the best interests of the nation whatever about the possible impact on my voters if they ever read this, which may not be entirely positive. I know some of the mothers of Ireland would not agree because it is very tragic to see a son or a daughter on drugs. I salute the families and, in particular, that wonderful mother whose name I cannot remember and whose daughter appeared in the newspapers with her arm so desperately scarred. The love of that mother supported the daughter until she managed to get herself into a programme. I salute these people but is it not better to have drugs regulated and the dose and the purity known?