Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister to the Chamber. I congratulate the Labour Party for bringing forward this timely motion. Education, of its nature, is an issue that must continue to be debated. The debate on it will ever end.

The backdrop to the discussion is the fact that we have had something of a population explosion in recent years. That is manifested most notably in the development of the commuter towns and the entire commuter belt in the catchment area of our large cities. That is particularly apparent in the constituency from which I come in south Cavan and the towns of Virginia, Ballyjamesduff, Bailieborough and so on. All of those towns have experienced substantial and immediate increases in population. In some instances they have experienced a doubling of population in a few years as a result of the movement of people from Dublin, immigration, etc.

The major failure of both the Department and the Government — one must level the political charge — is that this problem was not anticipated. It should have been anticipated at the planning stage and links developed between local planners and the people who draw up the local area plans with the Department of Education and Science. I have expressed that view at local authority level for a long time. It is my understanding that more formal links are now established between the Department of Education and Science and the local government structures. It would be wrong if that were not the case. The Department should see the planning permissions and the area plans to anticipate school needs within a close range of the proper requirement.

Nightmare scenarios arose in my constituency. In the national school in Virginia a number of prefabs have been taking up the children's play area for years, there are overcrowded classrooms, children being taught in cloakrooms and great discomfort throughout the entire school. There is no capacity to allow for the full implementation of the modern curriculum. In St. Anne's national school in Bailieborough there is huge overcrowding and large class sizes. In Ballyjamesduff a new school was built before the final blocks were laid, before a pupil had even walked in the door, numbers dictated a need for three additional classrooms. There are plans under way to build those classrooms but there is no anticipation about the project and that must change. If that were to happen as a result of tonight's debate, it would be a worthwhile exercise.

The Government and local authorities have failed to extract enough from the big builders during the economic boom. There should have been commitments for school buildings and many of the large builders got away with building massive estates with no schools. More should have been done and we must correct it in the future, although we have missed the boat in this respect. Even now, however, where a developer is building a large estate, just as there is a requirement for social housing, there should be a requirement for educational facilities.

The forum outlined by our education spokesperson, Senator Healy Eames, is a good idea. Education is not static. Many of us have been at the coalface of education and involved intimately with the sector. We all know it is not cut and dried and a forum would not be the same as a committee, it would be a beneficial exercise that could be carried out at a low cost. It is an inherently worthwhile idea.

We can never understate the debt of gratitude owed to the Catholic and minority churches for the provision of education over the years. They have done a great job and there is no point denying that. There is also no escaping the reality that the vast majority of Irish people want denominational education provided in Catholic and Protestant schools. This has implications for my constituency, Cavan-Monaghan, where the minority community forms a substantial segment of the population and wants to preserve its identity and culture. The same is true in Senator Keaveney's constituency. The existence of a denominational school for the local Protestant community in any area plays a vital role in the perpetuation of their way of life. It is equally important for Catholics.

Alongside Catholic and Protestant schools, we should note the multi-denominational and non-denominational schools and Gaelscoileanna. It is understood that new structures must emerge in certain instances, particularly to take account of the population in some areas. I agree, however, with Bishop Leo O'Reilly, the spokesperson for the bishops on education, when he said that the Church would have to be compensated in the instances where it cedes control.

We must accept that the majority of people want the status quo to continue while recognising the new, ethnically mixed, multicultural society, marrying the two in certain areas. That marriage must be approached intelligently and new structures put in place. All partners will co-operate in this area.

I recommend that the Minister rethinks the idea of the forum. She is capable of playing her part in the process and it is too good an opportunity to miss.