David Norris (Independent)

I congratulate the Labour Party for tabling this motion that is at least partly in response to the critical situation in Balbriggan. I notice it is causing the usual Wednesday evening ping-pong match, whereby the Opposition criticises the Government for its failures and the Government amends the motion noting and welcoming various achievements. This debate should be taken more seriously without points scoring.

The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Mary Hanafin, is one of the best Ministers in the Government but that does not mean her Department is immune from criticism and she would not expect that to be the case. A critical situation was raised on "Questions and Answers" in recent weeks and a fine doctor stated clearly that she was aware, in the area of her general practice, of children turned away from a primary school because they did not have a baptismal certificate. This is a significant problem that must be addressed.

The fact that there is a crisis led the Minister to call in Educate Together, an excellent group, and the chief executive said there is a catastrophic failure in the provision of school places for rapidly developing housing areas. This is not a partisan, party political view but rather one from the coalface from an expert on whom the Minister relied to rectify the situation. How did this situation arise?

We live in a rapidly developing society and a very good article on this topic was written by Dr. Garret FitzGerald. He points out that 60% of residents of the area in which I live are not Irish but mostly eastern European and Asian. There is a problem regarding the command of the English language possessed by some immigrants and this is an area the Government must address immediately. In the aforementioned school situations, the preponderance of non-Irish people will inevitably pull back other students, through no fault of their own but through a lack of linguistic skills. This is a problem that may lead to tension. Again, how did this situation arise?

It is clear the information on which forward planning should be based was available within the Department. Dr. FitzGerald points out that "from each census the necessary data on the numbers aged nought to four in each of the 320 different areas of Dublin and in well over 3,500 other parts of the country have been available". If one adds this to details relating to housing numbers, approvals and so on available from county councils and data relating to people's nationalities and ethnic origins, it is clear the information is available. However, it was inert and was not acted upon and this constitutes failure.

Another significant problem is the baptismal certificate. I am a churchgoing member of the Church of Ireland. I am not antagonistic towards religion but the exemption from the Equality Act sought by all churches, not just the Roman Catholic Church, presents a significant problem. There is this problem because of the lack of confidence each church has in the ethos it holds. A real religious faith can be fostered in the home and school is a place for giving facts. This is why Educate Together is such an excellent system. It is not militantly atheistic. It provides for the religious needs of the children and the requirements of parents.

It is very dangerous that churches should be exempt from equality legislation. Christianity is supposed to be about equality, the State is supposed to treat all the children of the nation equally, yet we exempt churches from such notions. I raised this matter previously. The Government should re-examine such exemptions because they allow churches, using State money, to fire teachers because of their lifestyles and a perceived conflict with school ethos.

The State is comfortable with the lack of separation of church and state and one need only examine the case of Louise O'Keeffe, who sued the State because she was sexually molested, for evidence of this. She was landed with the costs of the case because the State neatly passed responsibility to the church. This is unfair and clearly indicates the need for the separation of church and state.

I note the Roman Catholic hierarchy has indicated it no longer wants complete control of this area of education and is preparing an exit strategy of some kind. It is important that we know the motivation for this and how it will be accomplished in order that we can have proper, integrated education.