Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Senators who contributed to the debate. I will try to deal with a couple of the points that were made.

A number of Members do not seem to realise that gifts given to officeholders by a friend or relative for personal reasons only are, regardless of the amounts involved, exempt under existing legislation. We need to address that situation in light of controversies that arose. In 1995, it was felt that we should exempt gifts given by relatives or friends for personal reasons from the provisions of the ethics legislation. I am now trying to find a threshold — before now there was none — that would be reasonable in all circumstances. This is a matter of judgment and there is no scientific accuracy involved.

If people want to do wrong or if they are involved in doing wrong, they will, regardless of the legislative framework, proceed with what they are doing. What we are trying to do is show the public that there are rules and regulations with which Members must comply. We are also trying to highlight the fact that there is a commission which oversees matters in this regard.

I am trying to strike a balance. Senator Quinn referred to trying to avoid intruding into a person's personal affairs, regardless of whether he or she is an officeholder or Member of the Houses — who may, no more than any other citizen, require or be obliged to obtain assistance from a relative or friend. There are a number of circumstances, for example, a person falling ill, in which a family would come together to deal with matters. However, it is not for me to speculate on the exact nature of such circumstances. I merely wish to emphasise that there are no limits in place at present and that payments such as those to which I refer are exempt.

We are intent on reducing the level of exemption to amounts of €2,000 or less which are being used for personal reasons and which were provided by a relative or friend. A person would be obliged to obtain the agreement of the Standards in Public Office Commission that accepting an amount greater than €2,000 would not in any way materially influence or compromise him or her in the performance of his or her duties. There may be circumstances where that is the case but at least we are providing a third party interest to help determine the position rather than, as is currently the case, allowing an individual to make a judgment call on his or her own.

Relative to where matters stand, the Bill represents an improvement in terms of what will become subject to third party confirmation. It is a legislative response to this specific issue and to statements made by the Taoiseach and the then Tánaiste.

The other aspect of the Bill relates to updating the position in respect of what should be the amount which applies to gifts, to property supplied or lent or a service supplied at less than the commercial price, to travel facilities, living accommodation, etc., and to gifts received by an officeholder by virtue of office. I am stating that, for consistency purposes, this amount should be set at €2,000. Again, it is a matter of judgment. I do not expect everyone to agree with me. There are some who suggest that the amount should be no more than €50, while others regard the figure of €2,000 as striking the right balance. There are arguments on both sides and individuals have their views.I am trying to strike that balance. I do not accept that everybody regards politicians as corrupted. We have had a general election in which everyone has participated.