John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)

American Express appears to be the most expensive for those in debt. Some 45% of people do not clear their debt each month. The Senator also pointed out that many of them are not even aware of the rate they are paying. There is a need for greater regulation and clarity. There was mention of a website this morning, but I cannot remember the address. It would be worth finding out and logging into it.

Senator Tuffy suggested we debate whether democracy is an overrated concept. I think not, but perhaps the Taoiseach might take a different view on the matter. If he comes to the House, he can clarify the matter for the Senator. Senator Walsh is right about the disquiet with regard to the feast of tribunals. I am not sure of the reason we must continue paying the exorbitant rates being applied other than the possibility that the tribunals might not continue. That, of course, was not represented as the threat of a strike. Lawyers would not do that sort of thing or threaten to withdraw their labour.

Senator Terry raised a matter related to but separate from education, namely, children going hungry. I cannot comment on the individual case because I do not know about it. It seems to me a matter for the school authorities. It is regrettable if the school acts as the Senator suggested it is doing. The broader question on the arrangements made in schools in general warrants further debate. I am sure the Minister would be cognisant of that and may discuss the issue if she comes to speak in the House.

I noted what Senator Mansergh had to say about the three county councils. In view of the low level of income in Leitrim, Longford and south Tipperary, the people do not have taxable incomes and they are all——