Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

Interest rate rises are almost entirely outside the control of the Government and are decided by the European Central Bank in response to pan-EU conditions. The measures introduced by the Minister effectively cushioned buyers from the effects of some of the interest rate rises. If he had not introduced these measures, house buyers would have been much worse off after the budget rather than better off or in a similar position.

My having listened to the Minister's very full exposition and my having had the privilege of listening to him at the Ard-Fheis raised in my mind the question whether stamp duty is the sort of tax on which it is suitable to make any election manifesto promises whatever. This is because of the dynamic effects. No party would put in its manifesto that it would radically alter mainstream excise duties on petrol, beer or cigarettes. Flagging such measures long in advance would allow people to take various counter-measures to mitigate the impact or, if it were going to be beneficial to them, they would hold off. This gives rise to serious questions about whether it is responsible for a party to suggest in any detail what it intends to do in regard to stamp duty because of unintended effects. One must distinguish between intention and effect. Those can be very different. The Minister has done this and I will try to do so also.

As Senator Terry stated, some parents try to help their children get on the housing ladder but I suspect this is only a limited number. Most parents would not be in a position to do so or their children are able to look after themselves reasonably well. The redistributive impact of the Fine Gael proposals are at the top end of the market. They would affect people with properties worth €1 million. The figures were not worked out for properties worth in excess of that figure. The measure was presented as being for the benefit of first-time buyers, who are a relatively limited number of people. In large tracts of the country, the stamp duty thresholds are more than adequate. The impact would be to confer a large benefit on people who have already received significant benefits.

I respect Senator Terry. She has a deep social conscience. I appreciate she is not the spokesperson for finance but she finds herself in the position of having to champion proposals which at any rate, in theory and in intention, are not merely to the benefit of the coping classes but of the classes that are coping extremely well. As the Minister stated, the effect may be different. If one destabilises the market, by causing unintended speculative effects, instead of a soft landing in the market, this can have the effect of being conducive to a hard landing. The people who are the intended beneficiaries of the Fine Gael proposals might find themselves losing quite a lot of equity. My basic point is whether this type of discussion is responsible. I will leave the question hang.