Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)

This directive has been in force since 2004 and it has not caused any difficulty. Neither the local authorities nor the Department report any issues whatsoever that have caused any difficulty. I have great respect for Senator Ryan and I read what he stated on Second Stage. I sincerely believe he is overstating this case. I accept his heart is in the right place and I acknowledge the great work he has done to highlight social causes. I have taken inspiration from some of the speeches he made.

There is no hidden agenda. This measure has been in operation since 2004. As the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern — who knows this area very well — stated in the other House when the Bill was debated, it does not stop anyone from living in the area. Anyone who currently wants to live in Ballymun or any of these places can go on the waiting list for a local authority house. He emphasised there will still be a couple of thousand local authority units in Ballymun, but no rent supplement can be taken in the new units that will be built. He did not see the provision being there for eternity and stated it should and would be reviewed regularly but the area must be given a chance. This is why I intervened to say I thought the opposite was the case.

I do not know the area very well, but if one lets Ballymun continue in the way it was developing, it could have the opposite effect to what the Senators want to achieve, in that the only people living there would be people on rent supplement. The Minister of State pointed out that the early private units were snapped up immediately by people on rent supplement before any change was made in the directive. Do Senators wish the new Ballymun to consist 100% of people on rent supplement? There is nothing wrong with people on rent supplement. It is not a matter of saying black or gay people cannot live in a certain place. This deals with people in receipt of State funds and it is legitimate to use taxpayers' money to bring about a better result for a given area.

I agree it is an arguable point and we could have a wonderful debate on it, though there was no such debate in 2004 when it was conceived. However, the temperature has risen in the Houses lately and people are going out of their ways to receive insults. Furthermore, the temperature will continue to rise in the next six weeks and any issue can fall foul of that, though that is not necessarily what is happening in this case. It has been a long time since 2004 and there was no deep concern about it at the time.

The choice is a Ballymun full of people on rent supplement, which is the way it was heading, or a Ballymun with thousands of local authority houses and some private buildings where non-recipients of rent supplement can get accommodation. Which kind of Ballymun do Senators want? I do not know the area but it seems to be a common sense approach. I do not dress it up in a particular philosophy or plan for social engineering but it is a practical step in an area which needs to breathe again with a fresh start. In the old Ballymun everybody was poor, a situation to which Senators have expressed their opposition. We want a Ballymun where not everybody is in receipt of the same welfare payment, because that is not fair to them, nor to the taxpayer or to Ballymun.

This provision will not necessarily be permanent, it will be heavily monitored and only applies to Ballymun at the moment. It has not caused any trouble for two years and a new Ballymun is beginning to be built where people from different backgrounds and different income levels, rather than just welfare-dependants, will try to live together. This is a brave attempt to give people a fresh start and to give people on rent supplement, many of whom are lone parents, the chance to integrate, as they do not all want to live in a block of apartments side by side.

It is a difficult issue but the approach is based on a genuine attempt to give an area a fresh start. I recall that, since it was initiated in 2004, the need to try something new in the area has been accepted across the board. There was no avalanche of questions in the Dáil during Leaders' Questions and Opposition and Government alike saw the merits of the plan. If the scheme makes life difficult for vulnerable people it will be stopped forthwith and a new policy adopted but at the moment the policy seems to be having a positive effect.