Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy John Browne, and his officials to the debate on this important Bill. As he stated, this debate is symbolic in light of yesterday's events. On the Order of Business this morning I referred to the hard work that is required after yesterday's historic events and Senator O'Rourke replied the hard work starts now. We are undertaking a significant project and it will not be any less difficult because it is to do with salmon fishing. The Bill relates to traditional, established rights in different parts of the jurisdictions on both sides of the Border. This will not be an easy challenge but I welcome the fact we are discussing something as important and pertinent to the Border areas in Carlingford and Lough Foyle, especially in the aftermath of yesterday's events.

I have nothing negative to say about my dealings with the Loughs Agency because I have had no difficulties when seeking anecdotal or other information from it. I have experienced nothing untoward in terms of consultation, transparency or information. I organised a public meeting in Greencastle in January with my colleague, Deputy Perry. The meeting was both significant and interesting. The idea was to meet with fishermen from County Donegal dealing with aquaculture, salmon, angling, commercial, pelagic and other types of fishing.

What happened on the night was extremely significant and is pertinent to what we are discussing; many fishermen turned up from Strabane and County Derry. They were vexed because of the lack of information available to them. It was a tough public meeting because Deputy Perry and I were not in a position to give answers on behalf of the Loughs Agency. We did not have the authority to do so as there had not been any prior consultation. It emerged that there is a serious information deficit in terms of transparency in regard to the application dates for licences for draft nets or whether licences will be issued at all.

This time last year draft net licences were issued. I received anecdotal information from the Loughs Agency stating the licences would be issued shortly. Communication between the Department and the agency would be helpful. People seeking the licences must be made aware when they will be issued or whether they will be issued at all. The closing date I received anecdotally is 15 April and it is already close to the end of March.

Anecdotally, the information I received from the Loughs Agency regarding drift net fishing is that these licences would be given out inshore. Currently, approximately 112 drift net licences are in use on the Foyle, and it is intended to reduce that number to between 30 and 35. I welcome the fact the scheme is voluntary. As the Minister of State is aware, some concern and discontent was been created in Donegal by the involuntary nature of the approach taken by the Department to the same issue.

I welcome the inclusion of wild mussels and wild oysters into the Bill, as there is significant activity in this respect on the River Foyle. The Minister of State will be aware of the difficulties that exist and present significant challenges. I do not refer to the issue on a cross-Border basis, this is a local issue and must be addressed as such. Plans for coastal management systems look good on paper but the only way we can get something to work is to bring all sides together. There is a significant divide on the Foyle in terms of bad history between different sectors. If we are to incorporate the Loughs Agency as a watchdog for future development on the Foyle, we should take this matter into account. The Department should get in touch with all who are involved in the different sectors on Lough Foyle to address the serious difficulties that exist at present.

The Minister of State will be aware of the anomalies that exist in regard to seed mussels. I hope the new agency will put in place a level playing field in terms of the allocation of seed mussels. In Wales, for instance, anomalies remain in regard to seed mussels and we should not have to play second fiddle in this regard.

I also welcome the measures intended to combat poaching. Traditionally, this has been a difficult challenge for every administration. The acknowledgement that poaching is a problem is welcome. During the debate on drift net licences I made the point that poaching is a major issue. I have limited experience of the problem from Donegal to Mayo. From what I hear, the poaching of salmon from rivers is a serious problem and we have to give the Loughs Agency every assistance in terms of resources and advice.

The pollution element of the Bill is also welcome. It deals with individuals and groups. I do not wish to castigate my local authority. However, due to years of lack of investment, infrastructure such as sewerage schemes have fallen into disrepair and local authorities may be at risk of having heavy fines imposed once the Bill is enacted. There is evidence of raw sewage entering Lough Foyle and Carlingford Lough. We must take cognisance of that and live up to our responsibility to ensure proper investment is made in our local authorities in terms of dealing with the problem of pollution.

To return to what Senator O'Rourke said earlier about hard work, it will not be easy for us to embed co-operation and linkage on every level but the key element is bringing all stakeholders with us on this issue. Pardon the pun but many of them are left outside the loop, and I do not just mean the loop netters. Many fishermen believe they are in the dark on this issue and that was never more evident than last night when 100 fishermen attended a public meeting in the Highlands Hotel in Glenties. They did not get any answers and they believe they are being disenfranchised in terms of a representative voice.

We are going down the road of cross-Border co-operation, cross-Border institutions and so on but we must be very careful about the people we represent. Senator Maurice Hayes spoke earlier about the poignancy of yesterday's events. All Senators who spoke about that issue today, with the exception of Senator Maurice Hayes, started with the kidology by saying this or that politician brought us to where we are today. Let the historians deal with how we got here. Our job as politicians is not to sit back and say who did what, when they did it or how they did it. Our job, and this is the real task, is to try to bring two communities, and the different communities within the two communities North and South, together on the issues relevant to their lives, namely, economic issues and other issues that will make them and their families think about the type offuture they want. That is where our responsibility lies.

On both sides of the Border, the Tyrone, Derry and Donegal fishermen believe they do not have a voice. What message can we send to assure them that we will bring them with us on this issue? They do not trust the existing institutions and the new ones we will transpose on to them. We must be careful not to leave them out of the picture and bring them with us in this regard.