Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)

Like the Minister I think it extraordinary that up to Christmas, all sides appeared to be in concurrence about this Bill but, suddenly, at the 11th hour, there has been a volte face. People in general do not become exercised about legislation until they know it is on the floor of some House, be it here or in the other House. Members forget this because we are in the business of legislation and the various Stages of Bills, and it is part of our daily lives. However, how Bills are processed through the House is a mystery to ordinary people. This may be our fault because we do not explain the process in detail.

This Bill passed through the other House with suitable amendments and when it came to this House, the groups who believe they may be affected by the legislation woke up to the fact that this is the last post and suddenly they became very busy and active in their lobbying. I can understand their actions. We know that this process is at the 11th hour and groups wish to make representations, which they are entitled to do.

I have met representatives from the GIAI who are concerned about the matter and I have also received information from the RIAI pointing out the misunderstanding of the GIAI. The RIAI has stated that the use of recognition of prior learning would be inappropriate in the case of GIAI members but I do not think so. I feel a certain empathy with the members of the GIAI who believe they are chasing or must continue to chase their rights which they have had for many years. The RIAI states it will not control the assessment process but the Bill proposes that this will be the case. I am at a loss to understand the position. Four non-architects will be appointed as well as a non-architect chairperson who will be a retired judge, barrister or solicitor. The RIAI will nominate architects to the board who will constitute a minority of three members, albeit a learned and vocal one.

We had a most vivid debate on planning on the Order of Business. I have encountered the agents, as they grandly call themselves, who act for people seeking planning permission. If the planning permission result is satisfactory, they claim the credit and if it is not, they tell the applicants they did not make sufficient representations to their local representative.

I suggest to the Minister that something should be done about county councils who will do anything to refuse planning permission to ordinary people who want to build a home on their site in their parish in their county. It is a disgrace that county councils carry on as they do. Planning officials build on the tops of hills with views of beautiful lakes and verdant glens but they do not want anyone else to be given planning permission. It does not matter how many rules and guidelines exist, they will find some way around them and they will refuse permission. This may be off the point of the amendment. I defend the right of anyone to lobby, as would the Minister. However, I am willing to be reassured by the Minister that the GIAI will not lose whatever influence and clout it has in this field and that its members will continue to be enfolded in the warmth of the approval which they have.