Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)

The Minister is not, and I know he is not. I would be glad if, instead of writing up other people's comments, the Minister might listen to mine.

The RIAI by its nature, regardless of how fine the individual members are as architects, would be elitist. Its members have got their qualifications and are, as it were, kings of the walk. They would seek to put a cordon sanitaire around those whom they would allow into their enclave. In that regard, I am uneasy that the RIAI will be the assessor of the qualifications of people who have been in the business for a long time and who seek recognition under this Bill. I say this from the education point of view. I am well aware that when people seek to enter third level college as mature students, what is taken into account is not so much their record of prior learning, although that has its place at a basic level, but life experience, the various positions those people have held, how they influenced events and how events have influenced them. That type of experience is often better and can be assessed.

I hope the Department could become the assessor of people with prior experience who were admitted to the building business under the grandfather clause. I dislike that term as I find it somewhat denigratory. However, it is in common usage. I was lobbied about this issue and received extensive documentation on it, as is probably the case with every other Member. As I read the documentation I thought about all the people I know who went into third level education but who did not, perhaps, have a leaving certificate or the necessary points. However, they had lived life and that life experience stood to them.

These people have lived their lives by working in a particular profession, be it quantity surveying, surveying or architecture. That has been their business. That experience should be the telling fact, rather than prior learning. I hope our spokesperson, Senator Brady, with the Minister's help, will be able to put forward an amendment which will take cognisance of this factor. I feel strongly about it because I know many people who have gained so much knowledge and have gone so far after getting their third level qualifications. They simply did not have what one should have had when entering third level education. Life experience should be taken into account. I have always felt strongly about this, particularly with regard to women.

I hope the Minister was generous enough to take amendments when the Bill was taken in the Dáil. I hope he will take on board amendments which the Seanad may bring forward.