David Norris (Independent)

I thank my colleague, Senator O'Toole, for making his time available to me. This is a very important matter. Architecture is a most important and honourable profession. I regret that my university does not have a faculty of architecture, which is a great shame. There is one in the National University of Ireland. I wonder why, even under this Bill, people with architecture degrees are not automatically regarded as professionally qualified architects. They should be regarded as such. It seems a nonsense to have a qualification but not be regarded as professionally qualified.

The need for this kind of regulation is perfectly obvious in my neck of the woods. A scandalous situation arose where some gobdaw up the road in Gardiner Street got several Georgian houses, painted them green, sectioned off everything and stuck a group of immigrants into them. It was an appalling business. This man claimed to be an architect and nobody could deny him that. He just said he was an architect and nobody could take it away from him. That person should not be allowed to practise. The really horrible situation was that, while he was in court being convicted of one thing, the planning department of Dublin Corporation gave him permission for exactly the same thing in the back yard. There is something really rotten in that.

This is why we need a body that is independent. The RIAI is a wonderful body. I have spoken at various charity functions and know some of its presidents. I delight in the appellation "royal", but it is as odd as the Friends of the Library, of which I am chair. The RIAI has not had a proper election in 50 years. It does exactly what we do, namely, go into a darkened room with a few bits of cigar smoke, poke out all their pals and say, "Here is the next president", to which everybody replies: "Yes". That is it and good for them. That is the way things should work, but it is not the way things can be seen as independent.

I noticed that the Minister did not take on board a reasonable amendment from Deputy Quinn, even during the guillotined debate in the other House. This amendment would have secured a degree of independence. If one wishes to regulate things properly, one must have independence.

What about the money? A total of 10% of the RIAI's money comes from subscriptions. What about the other 90%? Where does it come from? It concerns me. The Minister is very clever, nimble on his feet and a great smear artist. He shoves in a piece here about one player who says this, that and the other. He should name and shame his pal. Senator Leyden is a great one for naming and shaming. Why does the Minister not come right out and wallop it to them, whoever they are, and let Members know? However, we all know that his Government and party have been unhealthily close to the construction and cement industries. The Minister can laugh, smirk and snigger as much as he likes, but we know this is true. We must ensure the body that regulates the architectural profession is not only clear of this but seen to be so.

What method of assessment will be used for these people?