Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)

The man's lackadaisical approach — he said the HSE intended to deal with this now and that then — did not reassure me that he was doing very much about the issue. I understand there is a way of detecting the presence of MRSA in hospitals. A piece of equipment can be used to ascertain the level and extent of the infection within a hospital.

We should use this debate to remind the Minister, the Department and the HSE that, rightly or wrongly, there is widespread concern about MRSA throughout the community. When people go into hospital for procedures such as hip operations which require serious involvement with surgeons, they worry about MRSA. We all have a role in this regard. It is clear that the standard of hygiene in our hospitals must be maintained at the highest possible level. While I have some regard for contract cleaners, the standard of hygiene was much higher some years ago when matrons were responsible for the cleaning system in county hospitals. The results of the use of modern techniques such as contract cleaning, which have not improved hygiene in hospitals, are starting to become evident.

I would like to speak about the methods which have been proposed, the issue of hand washing and the provision of facilities in our hospitals. I am not sure that the hand washing guidelines are being adhered to in hospitals. When I visited a ward in the Sacred Heart hospital in Roscommon recently, I was told by a nurse that I should be very careful because the hospital had MRSA. I was told to wash my hands, which was fair enough. I question the decision that was made to transfer large numbers of vulnerable and elderly patients to the hospital in question from the county hospital. When MRSA is detected, patients should be placed in isolation. They should not be transferred to another institution because that might cause the infection to be spread. This is something with which people in management positions should concern themselves.

The question of allowing visitors to hospitals is a serious one. I suggest that the presence of MRSA should lead to a curtailment of visitor numbers. Visitors should be made aware that they can carry MRSA without suffering from it. One should avoid visiting vulnerable patients, in particular, unless one is absolutely sure one is not carrying MRSA. I am not sure whether there is any technique or procedure for testing people for MRSA.

We all feel we have a duty to visit family members, friends and political contacts when they are in hospital, but we might not be doing them any great favours by doing that. I have spoken to constituents, including a member of a local authority who is in the Mater Hospital, about this issue. I told the man in question I would not feel comfortable going to visit him while he was laid up if I were worried I would contribute to his illness in any way.

People should bear in mind the danger that they may bring MRSA into a hospital and infect a vulnerable patient. I was a member of a health board and I know of instances where patients may have had ten visitors at a time. Patients would be worn out trying to explain their illness and how they were. Everyone was having a party and eating the grapes but they were not doing the patient much good. This was the case with very vulnerable patients. It led to a situation where visitors were not especially welcome, could only come by arrangement and visiting was confined to family members. This is one of the recommendations made by the Minister on the control of visitors.

The control system in hospitals is very lax. People do not go to the reception desk, do not visit by appointment and wander through the hospital without any great control. The HSE and the management of hospitals need to impose control so that areas where vulnerable patients are accommodated such as near operating theatres should not be open to visitors. Patients recovering from serious operations should only be permitted visits from close relations. These might seem draconian measures but we are fighting a serious and unseen enemy in MRSA.

Senator Ormonde and others referred to the fight against foot and mouth disease and the action taken by our Government which prevented the spread of the disease from North to South. This was a very successful campaign. Foot baths were positioned at the entrances to all buildings and this campaign was led by the then Minister, Deputy Walsh, and the Minister of State, Deputy Davern. I commend them and their co-operation with the Northern Ireland Minister.

It may not be a comparison of like with like but foot and mouth was a very infectious disease, as is MRSA. The Minister referred to the recruitment and training of key staff, including scientific infection control nurses, antibiotics liaison pharmacists and surveillance scientists. There has been an over-prescription of antibiotics which has resulted in MRSA defeating some of the strongest antibiotics. People have been fed antibiotics as they are present in chicken, pork and other food products in the food chain. In the case where medical practices also own a pharmacy, it is beneficial to the medical practitioner to keep prescribing as much antibiotics as possible because they have a share in the pharmacy. They do not prescribe generic drugs which are cheaper.

This is a combined effort of all parties, public representatives and health care workers because we are in this together. Nobody has any magic wand. This is a serious fight and we should endeavour to allay public fears. When members of the HSE or their public relations advisers are in discussions on radio programmes, they should be able to express the urgency of the situation. The best spokespersons who can explain the actions being taken by the HSE and hospital management to eliminate MRSA, if it can be eliminated, should speak on programmes such as the "The Late Late Show".

I do not think any hospital in the western world has eliminated MRSA. The Netherlands seems to have a great success story and its success should be studied in detail by the HSE. We should all be united in our approach. I hope that the combined motion and amendment to it would be agreed. The Government amendment to the motion is positive and it should be agreed without division in the House. A division is of no use in the fight against MRSA.