Margaret Cox (Fianna Fail)

I move amendment No. 14:

In page 49, subsection (3), between lines 3 and 4, to insert the following:

"(h) in relation to the method of payment, charging the consumer—

(i) any extra amount of money, commonly referred to as a credit card surcharge, if a consumer chooses to pay for goods of any description or any services or accommodation by credit or debit card, or

(ii) a different price to supply goods of any description, or provide any services or accommodation depending on the payment being made in cash or by credit card or debit card, or

(iii) a handling fee for purchases made on the Internet depending on the method of payment chosen by the consumer.".

On Second Stage I raised the thoroughly inequitable set-up imposed by many organisations that seek additional profits from people forced to pay for or buy services on the Internet or over the telephone. We are seeing an increasing trend on the part of organisations such as Ticketmaster, Ryanair, and Aer Lingus of forcing consumers to pay them to do business with them. Everyone accepts that in a consumer society one must pay for a product or service, but to be forced to pay for doing business with an organisation is not at all fair. It is up to the Government to ensure that we pass the necessary legislation to stop such unfair profiteering, and I would like the Minister to examine it.

For instance, if the Minister goes to his local shop, which might be somewhere in Cork, to buy a suit or shirt and the assistant says it will cost €40, €80 or €100, that is what he will charge, whether paid in cash or with a credit card. He does not say that it will cost another €5 if one pays with a credit card. In that transaction he accepts that the cost of doing business and receiving the payment — the credit card charges of the company affording him credit on the customer's behalf — is part of his overheads. We all know the exorbitant sums charged to cardholders for outstanding balances. It is not as if people are not making money from credit cards at all stages.

Another point that must be taken on board is supported by the Irish Banking Federation in particular. We are encouraging a move towards a cashless society, something ever more important, especially given the fact that in recent months bank officials have been held to ransom until they handed over money. We must encourage people at all levels of society to pay for things using credit or Laser cards. In that move towards a cashless society, there is a disincentive to use credit cards if people are forced by the service provider to pay €2.50 or €6 per transaction or a percentage of the cost of goods.

I would like us to consider the society in which we operate. I will talk of western County Galway in particular, which has the Aran Islands and places separated from centres such as Galway city by distances of 50 or 60 miles. People in such areas are being discriminated against through not enjoying fair access to a service. If they wish to book a theatre ticket on the Internet because they are unable or unwilling to get the bus into town, they are charged extra for the privilege of paying for it in their own home. Some people might say it is a service for which people are happy to pay. However, I suggest it is discriminatory and should not be allowed.

Recently a report was published on the lack of Internet take-up among older people, another group who I believe could benefit. If one told an older person to book or pay for something on the Internet with a credit card, he or she might well be discouraged by the increased expense. If we can reduce the unfair tax or surcharge imposed by suppliers, we will achieve a more equitable system.

I will give another example of people jumping on the bandwagon. At Christmas I attended a concert at the Helix in Dublin. We paid for the tickets over the Internet, and there was no booking fee. However, we read in the programme that from February the Helix too would introduce a booking fee for theatre tickets. The owners did not have to charge before, and I do not blame them for emulating such companies as Ticketmaster. Why should one not make money if everyone else is doing so? However, it makes fools of consumers, since it allows unacceptable profit taking.

Another argument often put forward, especially by merchants themselves, is that if one removed the surcharge, the transaction would become less transparent so that, instead of their charging a booking fee on top of the price, they would charge one included in it. That is probably not fair, since it would then be a matter for the consumer to decide if €70 for a ticket to the Point was too expensive. They might choose to buy the €65 or €50 tickets instead of the €70 one, and the market would decide. Ultimately it is the consumer who must decide how much is too much. However, if one wishes to buy €50 tickets for oneself and four or five friends who wish to attend a play, GAA match or whatever, and is told in the middle of the transaction that a credit card processing fee of €2.50 or €5 per ticket will be charged, it is very hard to stop. That means that consumers are being led up the garden path by such surcharging, and our acceptance of that is not good enough.

This has always been my understanding, and I have checked with the National Consumer Agency, the Consumers' Association of Ireland, and the Irish Banking Federation. MasterCard and Visa used to impose a no-discrimination rule whereby merchants might not distinguish between customers paying in cash or by credit card. A recent alarming move was MasterCard's change to that rule. While it is already being ignored, if Visa follows suit, we will have no route other than national legislation to override the excessive profiteering of organisations selling over the Internet.

A report in The Sunday Business Post on 22 October 2006 quoted a Ticketmaster representative as saying that the service charge paid for things other than the Ticketmaster distribution network, such as the installation and maintenance of computer hardware and software, telephone lines and labour. The Minister is responsible for the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and will know that many people run businesses. What else do they do except cover their overheads? One cannot simply accept their getting away with levying an additional fixed or percentage charge per ticket. One must build it into one's costs and, if one manages one's business appropriately, ensure that one covers them in a fair and reasonable way rather than exploiting the individual consumer.

This is my plea to the Minister. I may not have tabled the amendment to the correct section or have used the correct technical terms. We inserted it into section 4, since that dealt with prohibited commercial practices. We should send a clear message to consumers that the Government wishes to offer as much protection as possible and that it believes in equitable profit taking for all organisations. To have a non-negotiable credit surcharge if one chooses to do business with an organisation is neither appropriate nor fair. We do not pass legislation for the sake of being popular, but since we started talking about this, I have received overwhelming support from people throughout the country who hate paying this money and do not think it fair. If consumers cannot refuse payment because they require the Internet service, they need us to act to protect them.

I ask that the Minister consider the amendment and accept it if appropriate. We must send out the clear message that we want people to do business in the very lucrative Irish market, but that can happen only if no one is exploited.